Yamaha QL/CL Mixers on Faders?

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Re: Yamaha QL/CL Mixers on Faders?

Postby Butch » Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:55 am

No I did it I woke the sleeping lion :lol:
Hi Joe
can you give me an honest reason why I should switch to Amp?
I was going to but the 4 update fixed my main gripe with SAC
The only other problems I have had were computer based and Amp can't fix that
I am still faster on a hardware desk (I have 2 Soundcraft SI 32) but not by much anymore
Is the work flow any faster with Amp or just different ?
Can you still run lower latency in Amp with 24-48 ch?

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Re: Yamaha QL/CL Mixers on Faders?

Postby RBIngraham » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:28 am

From my perspective the work flow is much faster. I know my ops find it a lot easier to use as well and I have to spend less time explaining things to them and reminding them of all the odd ball right click and hidden Easter egg menus and pop ups in SAC.

For me the main thing other than stability has been real DCA groups.

Also the fact that I can totally customize the UI to fit the needs of the show (way more than what you can in SAC or any hardware desk for that matter) is a huge selling point to me.

This of course doesn't get into the fact that in AMP land when you ask for something or make a suggestion you don't get a condescending rant about why you don't need that or not being willing to adapt or try new things, blah, blah, blah... and fairly often when you ask for something it actually does show up in an update or two. Not everything of course but that's true of any software I've ever used and that's certainly fair.

Any of those reasons alone is worth the switch in my book.

I have never bothered to look back and compare latency on the same hardware. But if you look through the AMP forum you'll see a few discussions about this and I have yet to see anyone report that they didn't get better performance with AMP over SAC on the same hardware.

About the only thing I can think of that SAC does better is that is has VST support. While Bob P. has said he is not saying that he won't ever support VST, it's not currently there and if you actually need that then it means you need to run additional software and/or hardware and then link that into AMP in some fashion. I personally have not really missed it. But most of my needs are all built right into the DSP of AMP. (plenty of parametric EQ, Reverbs, Delays) And when I need something more odd ball like crazy pitch shifting effects I can just patch in a small computer via digital interface running Live Professor and plug ins. I often end up using that same machine for audio playback anyway. (although AMP has playback built right in as well... no pricey DAW software to purchase)

AMP doesn't use that 25 separate mixing console topology like SAC does. If you're really hooked on that way of working you perhaps might miss that. But in AMP you can run two completely separate audio engines with feeds to and from the same audio interface. So you could easily run one engine for FOH and another for Monitors if you like. Or use engine 2 for broadcast, etc...
Last edited by RBIngraham on Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Yamaha QL/CL Mixers on Faders?

Postby BrentEvans » Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:04 pm

Administrator wrote:A guy I work with is always clammoring for that feature. Think the only desk I've seen it recently in is Midas.


GLD does "reverse" sends on fader, as does the X32.
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Re: Yamaha QL/CL Mixers on Faders?

Postby RBIngraham » Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:33 pm

Midas - X32.... samething. :-P
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Re: Yamaha QL/CL Mixers on Faders?

Postby BrentEvans » Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:35 pm

RBIngraham wrote:Midas - X32.... samething. :-P


I don't consider the M32 an actual Midas console.
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Re: Yamaha QL/CL Mixers on Faders?

Postby RBIngraham » Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:45 pm

I don't consider any of them an actual Midas console anymore. It's a Music Group company with some folks left over from Midas.

That doesn't make them necessarilly a bad product, not even the M32 or X32 for that matter. But it does mean that just because it has a Midas badge on it won't automatically equate with high standards of fidelity and build quality, like it used to. The lower end stuff is there to hit a price point. A price point Midas never bothered with in the past and perhaps lead to them being gobbled up eventually.

While I'm sure the hardware sounds better on the Pro series it only makes sense that it's a lot of the same team working on the software and hence the similar features. The goodthing about that is that the punters who are buying up the X32 and M32s of the world help fund improvements in the Pro series, which should lead to a lot faster development than the old days with companies like Midas and Cadac moving at a glacier's pace. One would hope anyway.
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Re: Yamaha QL/CL Mixers on Faders?

Postby shmick » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:26 pm

Was looking at the GLD but it's max input and output channels is too low. The QL5 looks like a good fit.
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Re: Yamaha QL/CL Mixers on Faders?

Postby jlepore » Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:11 am

Butch -

As Richard says ... all of those reasons.

And - I have been using AMP since the fairly early days of the beta - I have used it for dozens of national acts - I have yet to have a single crash that wasn't my fault (like editing window definition files in the middle of the show) - and in no case did I ever lose audio.

I can not say that about SAC EVER. I would never trust SAC again. I seem to have the luck in finding all the "unique" bugs that only happen on my system (until they happen on everyone elses). I am just totally done with it.

AMP does more, sounds better, has SIGNIFICANTLY less latency. The work flow is much simpler, and has more actual capability. The VST thing I can live with at the moment.
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Re: Yamaha QL/CL Mixers on Faders?

Postby Craig » Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:15 pm

jlepore wrote:The VST thing I can live with at the moment.

I so want to make the jump over to AMP, but I use so much VST, I'd never be able to deal...
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Re: Yamaha QL/CL Mixers on Faders?

Postby RBIngraham » Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:35 pm

Craig wrote:
jlepore wrote:The VST thing I can live with at the moment.

I so want to make the jump over to AMP, but I use so much VST, I'd never be able to deal...


Just to play devil's advocate.... what did you use before you had SAC?

I know we've :horse: in the past. But really most consoles don't allow you to use VSTs at all. So it's nothing really out of the norm. Only Digidesign really allows for plug-ins and obviously it must be in their own proprietary format, which usually cost significantly more than the VST version of the same plug.

For most users AMP has all the typical effects you need or probably will at some point in the future. For that that have to use that Amp modeler or the like you can use a simple laptop and audio interface with a digital connection to tie it into AMP just like you would do with any other desk. With this method you gain the advantage of being able to use any plug you like, not just those that are zero latency or those that report zero latency. (and don't make SAC crash)
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