Some might find this interesting

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Re: Some might find this interesting

Postby RBIngraham » Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:58 pm

IraSeigel wrote:
RBIngraham wrote:...Right now AMP's fader latching isn't as sophisticated as SACs. But maybe I'll bring that up with Bob P and see what he thinks.


Maybe I'm not getting it, but I don't see the need for BOTH latching and DCA's. If AMP were to only have one, I'd say the DCA method is the way to go. It seems to offer far more flexibility than the latching method, as you pointed out in your examples. Whatever you can do with latches you can do with DCAs. But the reverse isn't true - whatever you can do with DCAs isn't always possible with latches.



LOL.... well that was exactly my point. I don't know why one would prefer latches over a real DCA groups. :horse:

AMP does still allow you to select channels and perform functions on those channels all at the same time. That is one thing where the latches in SAC can be handy. If you have to change things on large groups of channels fairly often (say when you're programming a show) it can be nice to use those temporary groups in SAC because I can build up groups of channels that I can select very quickly. Then mute or unmute or reassign, etc... all of them very fast. But that's really not the fader latching thing.

Actually now that I've been thinking about it, there are just so many damn ways to latch faders in SAC that perhaps the first thing I should have asked is just which kind of fader latching are you talking about? There are at least 4 ways I know about... Group Latches (using outputs 9-16), and then there are 3 different types that you access with a right click on the F Mixer windows title bar. And they all have the word latch in them somehow. But that's perfectly intuitive.... :roll:
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Re: Some might find this interesting

Postby airickess » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:58 pm

If I had the time to write scenes and program DCAs for these shows then it wouldn't be an issue. Richard, as you know these mic pickups change from scene to scene and it is very easy for me to just latch together the ones that I need for the upcoming scene or number for chorus. I usually only have five days to put in, rehearse and put on these shows, and then it is only about 4 to 5 hours a day, with most of that being eaten up by rehearsals. I don't have any time to write scenes or program the Group outputs per each show scene. For me the latching is a very quick and efficient way to bring up a number of mics at a time for group entrances or even just bringing up a couple of mics for a few lines here or there within the show. And with these productions lines are being taken from people and given to others during rehearsals, so latching is a help there too.
I'll leave the DCAs or Group Outputs for the rare occasion when I have time to program some scenes or when I'm mixing a band.
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Re: Some might find this interesting

Postby airickess » Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:07 pm

RBIngraham wrote:Actually now that I've been thinking about it, there are just so many damn ways to latch faders in SAC that perhaps the first thing I should have asked is just which kind of fader latching are you talking about? There are at least 4 ways I know about... Group Latches (using outputs 9-16), and then there are 3 different types that you access with a right click on the F Mixer windows title bar. And they all have the word latch in them somehow. But that's perfectly intuitive.... :roll:

I agree with you that the use of the word Latch is overused in SAC.
I really don't use the Group Outputs (9-16) except when I want to put an EQ across all the vocal wireless to notch out any nasty frequencies. And I also don't use the Group Outputs as latches at all. If I use them I'll just assign it to the master (but if I'm also using Front Fills, Sub feed or Delay feed then it's useless).
The way to which I am referring is to left click on the channel number at the top of the F Mixer. I can then just hold down the left mouse button and drag my cursor across the adjacent channels to latch as many as I want. Then I bring up those faders when necessary. Or I just left click on any of the needed channel numbers on the top of the F Mixer. It's a very quick and easy way to bring up multiple channels.
FYI, I'm not mixing with any type of control surface. I'm only mixing with a mouse.
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Re: Some might find this interesting

Postby airickess » Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:10 pm

I don't even bother with right-clicking on the F Mixer title bar in order to bring up the Latching Menu. I don't have time in these productions to create Latch Groups or just plain Groups.
This is another problem with SAC - the nomenclature has become very convoluted concerning Groups, Latch Groups and Latches. It's as though Bob couldn't make up his mind.
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Re: Some might find this interesting

Postby RBIngraham » Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:44 pm

airickess wrote:I don't even bother with right-clicking on the F Mixer title bar in order to bring up the Latching Menu. I don't have time in these productions to create Latch Groups or just plain Groups.
This is another problem with SAC - the nomenclature has become very convoluted concerning Groups, Latch Groups and Latches. It's as though Bob couldn't make up his mind.


Yep. It is why I always made up my own terminology when I was teaching others how to use it.

Yes there are groups, Latch Groups, Group Latches and Reverse Latch Groups.. or was that Reverse Group Latches... :horse:


Honestly Erik, once AMP is ready for prime time I would be very surprised if you took a serious look at it and chose to stick with SAC. But you never know I guess. You'll just have to decide for yourself when the time comes. Personally if I had no time and had to mix a lot of stuff, I wouldn't want to be screwing around with a mouse trying to select multiple channels. I would just want a control surface with enough faders that I could grab a lot of them at a time. I suspect even in the biggest hurry you could at least find time to do something like a Male and Female DCA group or two. And then just ride the overall level with the DCA and slam the inputs up and down by hand like we did in the bad old days.
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Re: Some might find this interesting

Postby airickess » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:24 pm

I've contemplated control surfaces but with these shows we typically run 22 wireless plus playback. It's easier for me to choose the channels via Latching than it would for me to hook up three fader packs. Also, I'm often in mixing positions that wouldn't support three fader packs across anyway. Using the mouse for Latching is very quick and efficient. In using the mouse only, the thing I've given up is using two hands for simultaneous fades up and down. There are certainly times that I've missed that.
If I were only mixing bands I might never consider control surfaces because band mixing is relatively static when compared to mixing for musicals and a mouse might do just fine.
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Re: Some might find this interesting

Postby RBIngraham » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:54 pm

airickess wrote:I've contemplated control surfaces but with these shows we typically run 22 wireless plus playback. It's easier for me to choose the channels via Latching than it would for me to hook up three fader packs. Also, I'm often in mixing positions that wouldn't support three fader packs across anyway. Using the mouse for Latching is very quick and efficient. In using the mouse only, the thing I've given up is using two hands for simultaneous fades up and down. There are certainly times that I've missed that.
If I were only mixing bands I might never consider control surfaces because band mixing is relatively static when compared to mixing for musicals and a mouse might do just fine.


Bob must have hacked your account. :lol:
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Re: Some might find this interesting

Postby jlepore » Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:52 pm

airickess wrote:If I were only mixing bands I might never consider control surfaces because band mixing is relatively static when compared to mixing for musicals and a mouse might do just fine.


Wish I had bands where I could slack it like that!
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Re: Some might find this interesting

Postby airickess » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:11 am

jlepore wrote:
airickess wrote:If I were only mixing bands I might never consider control surfaces because band mixing is relatively static when compared to mixing for musicals and a mouse might do just fine.


Wish I had bands where I could slack it like that!

And of course I was expecting someone to not fully read what I wrote when I said it was "relatively static" compared to theatrical musical mixing. Nowhere did I say it was slacking nor did I denigrate mixing bands. The key word there is "relatively".
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Re: Some might find this interesting

Postby RBIngraham » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:48 am

airickess wrote:
jlepore wrote:
airickess wrote:If I were only mixing bands I might never consider control surfaces because band mixing is relatively static when compared to mixing for musicals and a mouse might do just fine.


Wish I had bands where I could slack it like that!

And of course I was expecting someone to not fully read what I wrote when I said it was "relatively static" compared to theatrical musical mixing. Nowhere did I say it was slacking nor did I denigrate mixing bands. The key word there is "relatively".



Even so... I would never want to mix with just a mouse. I've done some festival work, mixing with SAC and while I didn't use it a lot, I always take with me my Peavey PC1600 unit. 16 faders and it's pretty damn small. I don't like mixing theatre on it as it's so compact that it's easy to grab the wrong fader. But I have done it, when space was so tight that it was that or mix from a booth or something ridiculous.
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