AMP in the Real World

A place to discuss AMP - Audio Mixing Platform (http://www.ampmix.net)

Re: AMP in the Real World

Postby Craig » Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:45 pm

I'm currently running SAC at 32x1 on a RME. Is AMP better than that?
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Re: AMP in the Real World

Postby BrentEvans » Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:12 pm

jlepore wrote:The significant reduction in latency also helps significantly in cleaning up PA vs. live stage sound. I can't stand the sound of wedges on SAC (and am glad I never have to wear ears on it).


Joe,

I know you've had your share of troubles with SAC, and I'm no stranger to the glitches. My rig froze five times in the last two weeks until I found the cause of the problem (fortunately only for a brief second and maily at times where it really wasn't noticed).

That said... there is far more acoustic latency between the backline and stacks on most stages than SAC introduces. Many times the backline is even delayed in the PA to time align... the 5-7ms that most SAC systems introduce is far less than that distance, so you just delay the backline a little less. As for monitors, there's that much acoustic latency between the wedge and the performer's head. I doubt most performers can tell the difference between 5ms and 12ms in a blind test. Heck... moving forwards and backwards in the sound field introduces a latency variance and many performers move around more than a foot or two during the performance...

SAC definently has an odd sound for monitoring in some instances, I just don't think it comes from overall system latency. I've never taken the time to do zero summing tests on any of my rig, but it would be interesting to see if the different signal paths really are seeing the same latency, or if some are experiencing latency or phase shifting. I do know that if VST plug are used in the signal chain, they can introduce latency even if they report none. The ReaPlugs introduce measurable latency on my system, some as much as 10-15ms. 20ms of total latency in a monitor chain is certainly audible, so I was never able to get VSTs to work. Bob's plugs have always been fine, though.

Have you done any measurement on latency or phase in AMP?
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Re: AMP in the Real World

Postby jlepore » Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:18 am

The audiable difference is STAGGERING between the two. One merely needs to put a headset on and solo a mic to hear the difference.
I can also clearly hear the delay on wedges with SAC - it drives me crazy as it just sounds like a phasy thing you just can't get rid of. I have no sense of that with AMP - it sounds just like the old Yamaha analog board - without all the noise!

On that rig, typically the only thing in the monitor path is the built in parametric EQ (as using anything else is just not worth screwing with from a remote), so nothing that should be introducing any additional latency.

Hearing a system running at 64x0 is crazy - sounds as good as analog.
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Re: AMP in the Real World

Postby Paul Henry » Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:15 pm

Latency has always been the thing that bugged me most with all digital mixing, glad to hear AMP is that good.

What's the load like? I mean how many channels can you run compared to SAC on a rig of the same horsepower? More, less, approximately the same? I'm really looking forward to a system that will let me run at the full potential of modern hardware.
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Re: AMP in the Real World

Postby RBIngraham » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:54 pm

In my completely unscientific tests I find that AMP has a bit higher system usage than SAC with lower channel counts. But then as you add more inputs and outputs, it doesn't seem to ramp up to unstable system utilization levels nearly as quickly as SAC. By unscientific I mean I was just going by what each audio engine reports on it's CPU meter... which who the heck knows how accurate that is for this kind of analysis. I also didn't run SAC and AMP on the same machine at the same time, flipping between them, which I'm pretty sure Joe has done.

Obviously at bit more realistic testing with Task Manager is probably called for. Which I also believe Joe has done.
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Re: AMP in the Real World

Postby jlepore » Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:42 pm

As the clip shows, I was using about 13% on 24 ins, 9 auxes, 8 DCA's, EQs/Comps/Gates as required. This was on a machine that was running both the engine and GUI, as well as SAC Remote (mind you, I was running with 0 buffers as well vs. the normal SAC 64x2!).

I have found it to be more efficient than SAC, and now with the new changes to the engine that I haven't tried yet (nor feel right about announcing), I expect significantly better performance on advanced hardware.

sageClip.jpg
sageClip.jpg (94.15 KiB) Viewed 79223 times
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Re: AMP in the Real World

Postby jlklein » Mon Sep 22, 2014 2:14 pm

Thanks for the Motormix feedback, guys. I'm not interested just yet in rolling my own, or changing on the fly, just a more efficient use of the existing available buttons. I had some fun sitting behind and talking shop with the Carnival Pride's FOH guy on my vacation cruise this week as he was mixing the shows on a PM5D and was reminded how nice a dedicated tap tempo button is, and having your channel fader banks separate from your DCA/return banks, etc. The lockable faders feature would be a welcome improvement, and I'm betting that whatever Template AMP has for Motormixes (or whoever writes it) would be more inclusive of the currently unused Motormix buttons in SAC.

Thanks,
Jeff
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Re: AMP in the Real World

Postby digitaloutput » Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:35 am

Any support for waves or other vst plugins in plan? There are 4 insert spots on the mixer for vst's, right?
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Re: AMP in the Real World

Postby RBIngraham » Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:24 am

VST support is not implemented yet. I know it's in the plans but I have no idea where it is on his priority list.

There are 2 insert points per channel strip currently plus more routing options than you can keep track of.
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Re: AMP in the Real World

Postby digitaloutput » Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:30 pm

Any news here?
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