Another nail in the coffin?

Discussions about the use and operation of SAC (Software Audio Console)

Re: Another nail in the coffin?

Postby soundguy » Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:09 pm

RBIngraham wrote:Sorry I still say, 8 DCAs is very shortsighted and a silly omission or error in judgement based on nothing more than the fact these companies don't give a shit about the theatre market, with a few exceptions. Either they don't care or they are not smart enough to ask what we need. And so yes, I am bitter about that. And will continue to bitch until someone actually listens and serves my part of the industry. :protest:


This reminds me of DF over on the other forum who continuously bashed Yamaha because he was trying to use an 01V for live sound. The 01V is designed specifically for home studio, and it only has 12 mic inputs by design. Even Yamaha recommended not using it for live sound. But DF didn't get that Yamaha made other products designed to meet his requirements.

I'm not intimately familiar with the software of the S3L or Venue line (other than what shows up by default on the surface of the Venue and it's more than adequate 8 DCAs), but I believe you can route buses to additional input "groups" on the Venue as you can in Pro Tools, similar to a true analog audio group, in addition to the DCAs ... to get you more than 8 total. Perhaps as many as you could possibly want. One could certainly argue the superiority of an audio group over a DCA.

So if you really want that info, I would point you to the DUC. I may post a similar question myself since I need to ask another question re: Pro Tools. In Pro Tools, the number of "groups" (aka sub-masters) is limited only by the number of output buses. I opened a project with 24 last week.

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Re: Another nail in the coffin?

Postby RBIngraham » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:34 pm

Thanks for the ultimate insult. I'll remember that one.


But depending on which model of 01v you are talking about, Yamaha certainly does push them for live. Right on their web site.


Better get with the program.


And if no one was to complain, we would all be stuck with your "well that's good enough for me, I don't need more than 8" attitude. Some of us like to image what could be done and are not so short sighted.
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Re: Another nail in the coffin?

Postby soundguy » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:24 pm

Dude, lighten up. We're talking about tools here.

Sorry, but the user base would overwhelmingly agree that they would not be interested in paying more money for additional VCA/DCA channels that likely are not needed. Drums, Vocals, Keys, Gtrs, ... and a couple more ... just about covers it for most music mixing, and that is the target market of the product. And I reiterate, check out the DUC and you may discover other "grouping" features to satisfy your needs, as they have in the Venue line.

As far as the 01v goes, I'm sorry ... it has 12 mic inputs. Period. You and DF can fight that fight if you like. Now, you motivated me to check out the Yamaha site, and yes, they brag about the 01V scenes being a great feature for live sound ... but in previous (and recent) incarnations of that site, they were specific in directing you elsewhere for your live sound needs.

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Re: Another nail in the coffin?

Postby jlepore » Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:36 pm

Hate to say, but I also prefer about 10-12 DCA's with my current act. I make due with 8, but a few more would be helpful.
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Re: Another nail in the coffin?

Postby soundguy » Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:06 pm

And which console are you using that has more than 8?
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Re: Another nail in the coffin?

Postby RBIngraham » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:29 pm

soundguy wrote:And which console are you using that has more than 8?


iLive, Digico, both allow up to 16. And the new Yamaha CL series has 16 as well I believe.


And I would say, who cares what is typical. Just because 8 is often the number, doesn't mean that's an ideal number or even a good idea. I would also disagree that adding more DCA groups would add a lot of expense to the console, if any at all. In the digital world it's all just virtual fader positions anyway. A few more icons or virtual buttons on some screens.
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Re: Another nail in the coffin?

Postby BrentEvans » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:43 pm

A&H GLD series has 16... and much more... priced reasonably....
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Re: Another nail in the coffin?

Postby RBIngraham » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:44 pm

soundguy wrote:As far as the 01v goes, I'm sorry ... it has 12 mic inputs. Period. You and DF can fight that fight if you like. Now, you motivated me to check out the Yamaha site, and yes, they brag about the 01V scenes being a great feature for live sound ... but in previous (and recent) incarnations of that site, they were specific in directing you elsewhere for your live sound needs.

Soundguy


Yeah of course it's not going to mix a huge show... duh! You and I will just have to disagree on Yamaha's marketing I'm afraid. I've been a Yamaha digital user for a long time going all the way back to the original ProMix 01 (still have one, mostly used as a control surface these days). I guess my memory could well be wrong (it is starting to slow down a bit) but I sure seem to remember them always pushing the 01 line for small live mixing tasks. Of course I don't expect to see a ton of specialized live mixing tools in an affordable, compact console. And I never suggested that Yamaha should be adding a ton of fancy scene controls or DCA groups to their compact line. I'm not asking for a PM5d or a Digico for $2000 here.

But in something that is very specifically being developed for live sound I think it's a fair criticism that 8 DCAs is a very modest number and either they are limiting that so as not to compete with their higher end products (a fair tactic, but that doesn't mean I cannot or won't bitch about it) or the develops need to get out more and talk to users in the field and not just the old guard that gets their mugs on the trade rag covers. Or they just don't care... One of the above... pick one...

I mean we are talking about Digidesign here, who just with their latest version finally figured out that someone might want to render audio in faster in real time. Another favorite bitch topic of mine... And Yeah, I know all their BS arguments, but I call BS on all of them, just to fend off what I'm sure will be a defense of Pro Tools. 8-)
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Re: Another nail in the coffin?

Postby RBIngraham » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:46 pm

BrentEvans wrote:A&H GLD series has 16... and much more... priced reasonably....



Cool. One of several reasons I really like the Allen and Heath digital stuff. Them and Digico are pretty much my favorites. Now if I could only afford to buy up some of those for my own personal stock. :D
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Re: Another nail in the coffin?

Postby soundguy » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:27 am

Umm, Joe? I was wondering which console YOU were using that were giving you the VCA you need. I get it that many manufacturers make consoles. It's been going on for decades.

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