Split: Discussion about new Controller Templates

Discussions about the use and operation of SAC (Software Audio Console)

Re: Split: Discussion about new Controller Templates

Postby jlepore » Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:41 pm

With further exploration, what is interesting about the current way it works is that each section can be re-ordered without affecting the next section as long as the sections stay grouped together... so you can move input chans around and the controller will match the screen order, without affecting Return and Output mappings... you can also re-order within Returns and not affect inputs or outputs... this could be quite useful...

For instance... the top 8 x 4 banks of BCF encoders could map to 32 input chans... and the faders could map to Returns and Outputs and will stay that way as long as Returns and Outs are kept grouped within themselves, while input chans can be re-ordered to suit the band layout... interesting.

Bob L


ok .. seriously? Does he not know how his own system works?
There's no way he can be this uninformed ....

or is this another section of the code he didn't write and doesn't understand?
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Re: Split: Discussion about new Controller Templates

Postby shmick » Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:13 pm

Bob also states "Everything that can be broken is not necessarrily a bug... simply a side effect sometimes of certain aspects of the way things work."

I guess he would not agree with the definition of software bug as it's listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_bug
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Re: Split: Discussion about new Controller Templates

Postby airickess » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:30 pm

He certainly appears to be re-energized with regards to SAC. I think Joe might be right in that he's found someone to write the code for the software and he's putting that person to work.
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Re: Split: Discussion about new Controller Templates

Postby RBIngraham » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:57 pm

airickess wrote:He certainly appears to be re-energized with regards to SAC. I think Joe might be right in that he's found someone to write the code for the software and he's putting that person to work.



I think what Joe might have meant is that Bob never did write all this code himself and perhaps this is one part that was written by someone else long ago and hence why the bugs can't be fixed?

Either way, saying that's not a bug is misleading at best. If something breaks under normal operation (which moving channels into new orders certainly is), that's a bug in my book. I do wonder just how much of this new energy is because I mentioned Joe's name on the other forum and told the original poster to ask for Joe's template. Suddenly this is getting attention, after having basically asked for/suggested it for years? Hmmmmm? Sorry, something just doesn't add up.

Oh well if I end up with a template that does what I want, either from Joe or Bob... I'll take it! ;)
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Re: Split: Discussion about new Controller Templates

Postby mycorn » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:41 am

this actually pisses me off a bit
-whether his code works or not-
we were asking for this from the beginning

and all we ever got was 'feel the force, luke'...

i wont speculate what's going on in the guys head
but when i click on the company forum now my office smells like fish

kind of hard to deny that even
Uli had blown past him
...and HIS vision is stagnet

it must suck to to wake up half a decade later
and figure out your customers were right about what they want :o
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Re: Split: Discussion about new Controller Templates

Postby RBIngraham » Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:07 pm

mycorn wrote:this actually pisses me off a bit
-whether his code works or not-
we were asking for this from the beginning

and all we ever got was 'feel the force, luke'...

i wont speculate what's going on in the guys head
but when i click on the company forum now my office smells like fish

kind of hard to deny that even
Uli had blown past him
...and HIS vision is stagnet

it must suck to to wake up half a decade later
and figure out your customers were right about what they want :o



Yep... funny how suddenly something folks have been asking for for years seems to have taken less than a day of work or so. Granted it doesn't really work. But if that much took a day, it makes you wonder how long it would take to make something usable. And if all the time spent berating paying customers had been spent o small projects like these.... I wonder what might have been.... sigh...
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Re: Split: Discussion about new Controller Templates

Postby RBIngraham » Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:27 pm

shmick wrote:Bob also states "Everything that can be broken is not necessarrily a bug... simply a side effect sometimes of certain aspects of the way things work."

I guess he would not agree with the definition of software bug as it's listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_bug



And that post seems to have vanished....lol...
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Re: Split: Discussion about new Controller Templates

Postby Doug_Danforth » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:47 pm

mycorn wrote:this actually pisses me off a bit
-whether his code works or not-
we were asking for this from the beginning

and all we ever got was 'feel the force, luke'...

i wont speculate what's going on in the guys head
but when i click on the company forum now my office smells like fish

kind of hard to deny that even
Uli had blown past him
...and HIS vision is stagnet

it must suck to to wake up half a decade later
and figure out your customers were right about what they want :o


That's the beauty of owning your own company I guess. You can work on what you want, not what other people want you to work on.

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Re: Split: Discussion about new Controller Templates

Postby RBIngraham » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:53 pm

Doug_Danforth wrote:
That's the beauty of owning your own company I guess. You can work on what you want, not what other people want you to work on.

Doug


Yep, and when you piss off a large number of customers you have no one else to blaim either, no matter how hard you might try.
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Re: Split: Discussion about new Controller Templates

Postby randyhyde » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:05 pm

jlepore wrote:
With further exploration, what is interesting about the current way it works is that each section can be re-ordered without affecting the next section as long as the sections stay grouped together... so you can move input chans around and the controller will match the screen order, without affecting Return and Output mappings... you can also re-order within Returns and not affect inputs or outputs... this could be quite useful...

For instance... the top 8 x 4 banks of BCF encoders could map to 32 input chans... and the faders could map to Returns and Outputs and will stay that way as long as Returns and Outs are kept grouped within themselves, while input chans can be re-ordered to suit the band layout... interesting.

Bob L


ok .. seriously? Does he not know how his own system works?
There's no way he can be this uninformed ....

or is this another section of the code he didn't write and doesn't understand?


In all fairness, I've written some large systems (well, actually, "medium-sized systems" as "large systems", by definition, require the efforts of more than one person) and I can attest that after a couple of years I cannot remember how parts of the system work.

I suspect, just based on my observations of the way SAC behaves, that the code is a bit of a kludge; that being the case it's easy enough to believe that he doesn't remember how some code operates that he wrote years ago. That said, his web site certainly talks about other people writing code for him so it's also possible that he doesn't understand how that code works.

As for the whole control surface issue, I think the best thing that Bob could do is to "open-source" SAC Remote (and the communication protocol between SAC remote and SCA) and let 3rd party developers create new user interfaces, control surface interfaces, and other features for SAC. He can keep the mix engine proprietary (which is where the real IP is) and wind up with a lot of development effort provided by other people. One need only look at SAC skins to see how people could take and extend SAC Remote.

Of course, he'd never do it. I suspect he'd think he was giving away the crown jewels (and who knows? Maybe SAC Remote is so intertwined with SAC that it can't be released on its own so he couldn't open-source it without giving away SAC at the same time). Maybe he's embarrassed by the code quality? However, as SAC begins the inevitable decline into irrelevancy (as additional LAWs come on line), I suspect that tricks like open-sourcing SAC Remote could delay (and possibly reverse) that decline.
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