Kudos on compressor

Discussions about the use and operation of SAC (Software Audio Console)

Kudos on compressor

Postby randyhyde » Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:39 pm

Last night I had a singer with his band playing on my stage (outdoors).
A sound engineer walked by and commented how the mix sounded just like a CD and he was really impressed with the compressors on the vocals.
Definitely a win for SAC on that one.
Cheers,
Randy Hyde
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Re: Kudos on compressor

Postby soundguy » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:49 pm

A skilled mixer can make it sound great on any decent system with decent gear and a decent performance. I get multiple compliments like this daily and credit it towards my experience ... which may be a little deeper and richer than most FOH guys. After all, that's why I am hired. Yeah, good gear helps, but it's different gear EVERY night.

So kudos to the guy mixing your show which received the compliment. The model of the compressor didn't mean shit. It was his ability to dial it in.

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Re: Kudos on compressor

Postby randyhyde » Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:09 pm

soundguy wrote:A skilled mixer can make it sound great on any decent system with decent gear and a decent performance. I get multiple compliments like this daily and credit it towards my experience ... which may be a little deeper and richer than most FOH guys. After all, that's why I am hired. Yeah, good gear helps, but it's different gear EVERY night.

So kudos to the guy mixing your show which received the compliment. The model of the compressor didn't mean shit. It was his ability to dial it in.

Soundguy


Well, I have used some Berhinger compressors in the past and believe you me, SAC's really do sound world's better :)
Credit where credit is due.
SAC compressors will do sound very natural compared to some compressors I've used in the past (including some TC Electronics units I've used on my old analog system).
cheers,
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Re: Kudos on compressor

Postby jlepore » Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:31 pm

If you think these sound good, you should listen to the new Midas comps in their digital boards - especially in "Vintage" mode - you can slam the hell out of them and you'd swear they weren't there (until you bypassed them and heard what the input REALLY sounded like!)
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Re: Kudos on compressor

Postby BrentEvans » Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:01 pm

soundguy wrote:So kudos to the guy mixing your show which received the compliment. The model of the compressor didn't mean shit. It was his ability to dial it in.


I'm sure you're far more experienced than all of us ankle-biters, but it really seems that this can only be half true. A bad engineer on a good system will have bad sound. A good engineer on a bad system will make it sound the best it can. A good engineer on a good system will get compliments like Randy's guy did. You can't honestly think that you can get the same sound out of a rig of old Peavey and Behringer analog gear that you can out of a good digital product, or a high end analog rig for that matter?

One system I used to mix on frequently was an Allen & Heath ML console with DBX 166 comps and Ashly EQs. All of these are respectable pieces of gear. The Soundcraft Si expression that replaced all that sounds better hands down.... same guys mixing the same bands with all else being equal. This has been noticed by bands and engineers alike.

Not every piece of gear sounds the same and a good engineer can't get the inherent distortion caused by inferior gear out of a mix just by tweaking.
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Re: Kudos on compressor

Postby soundguy » Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:08 am

We can argue this 'til the cows come home, but assuming one is not using absolute garbage as you suggest, it's all in the hands of the mixing engineer. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. And of course we all use the best tools we can because we can do our jobs better. And if you do this as a pro, that means you make more money in the long run when you do your job better.

Sorry, I have used the compressors and Levelizer in SAW, and there ain't nothing special there that you can't find elsewhere. Furthermore, being able to hit a limiter hard and it remains "natural" sounding is not necessarily the benchmark for quality. There are dozens and dozens of products on the market, both software and hardware, all of which have different sonic characteristics, and being able to "hear" those characteristics is what makes them desirable.

It never ceases to amaze me that people around here bring up the Behringer product line when comparing quality. A Yugo was probably superior to an East German Trabant, but they were both worthless pieces of shit. They sold a few copies because they were dirt cheap.

The only reason anyone here has a SAC license is because it was cheap and offered bang for the buck, if you could overlook the shortcomings. Any audio pro with money to spare (and I know most of us don't have that in our new economy) would be purchasing another option.

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Re: Kudos on compressor

Postby randyhyde » Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:47 pm

soundguy wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me that people around here bring up the Behringer product line when comparing quality.

Soundguy


Well, largely because you were the one that said "The model of the compressor didn't mean shit." :)

And I still argue that the SAC compressors sound better than the TC Electronics C300 units I was using before.
No one is claiming that SAC has the absolute best compressors out there. But even ignoring the price benefits, they don't sound bad.

And looking beyond the compressors, with decent preamps (I use Focusrite Octopre Dynamics Mk II units), SAC *does* sound pretty damn good most of the time. No question there are better sounding boards out there (digital and analog). But the "bang for the buck" does rear its ugly head. Bob pretty much has it nailed when he claims that SAC systems are equivalent to digital systems costing three times as much (now any claims about SAC being equivalent to $400,000 consoles are just bogus). Sound quality isn't where SAC fails. SAC fails on the user interface (especially with respect to hardware control surfaces). We can argue all day long about Bob's support, lack of updates, Bob's "vision" and stuff like that. No question RML Labs has dropped the ball in those areas. But assuming you're using a decent sound card, preamps, D/A, and A/D, SAC does a pretty good job on the sound quality front. Yeah, you could spend a *lot* of money and do better. But that's true of every console, not just SAC.

The one thing that totally sucks (sound-quality wise) in SAC is the reverb. I can't believe how many people *hate* that thing (Behringer is probably better, certainly no worse). I still use it on my B rig but use a Spazio SS on my A rig. I don't know if I'd be tempted to use it on my "A" rig again even if it became a "remoteable" plug in.
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Re: Kudos on compressor

Postby jlepore » Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:38 pm

Yes ... it all works amd sounds great ... right up until the moment it crashes with a full house.

If you listen carefully in the deafening silence, you can hear your career leaving your body.
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Re: Kudos on compressor

Postby BrentEvans » Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:50 pm

randyhyde wrote:
soundguy wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me that people around here bring up the Behringer product line when comparing quality.

Soundguy


Well, largely because you were the one that said "The model of the compressor didn't mean shit." :)


Exactly. Today, SAC is replacing mixers that cost $2000-$4000 and it sounds as good as systems costing $10,000-$15,000. I think there are very few people that can afford a A&H GLD or one of is competitors that would buy SAC. SAC is playing in the X32/Studiolive/Si Expression/A&H Qu market, and in bang for buck it is better than all of those. That said, a few years ago when those didn't exist, you couldn't buy or put together a system at the same price point that could even get close. Even if you bought Behringer gear, you couldn't do it for $2000-$3000, which is the average startup cost of SAC. ($700 32 channel mixer + $900 for 6 stereo comps + $900 for 6 stereo EQs = $2500, and that's not even close to what SAC offers).

I agree that a great engineer with good equipment can get great sound. A great engineer with even premium equipment can get awesome sound. You simply can't take the equipment out of it.
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Re: Kudos on compressor

Postby soundguy » Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:44 pm

BrentEvans wrote:Exactly. Today, SAC is replacing mixers that cost $2000-$4000 and it sounds as good as systems costing $10,000-$15,000.


SAC isn't replacing ANYTHNG...anywhere. In your mind perhaps, but not in real life. The exception to that might be some church guys replacing their 30 year old Tascam mixer that blew up.

I think there are very few people that can afford a A&H GLD or one of is competitors that would buy SAC.


There are few few people anywhere that would buy SAC, except on this forum where a few poor suckers bought in years ago. Hell, you can pick up a license for peanuts on the lost and found on the other forum ... with no takers.
SAC is playing in the X32/Studiolive/Si Expression/A&H Qu market, and in bang for buck it is better than all of those.


SAC *isn't playing anywhere* other than a few low end gigs using lunch tables for sound towers as you read about on this forum. I know you wish that it were used on real money-making gigs somewhere, but it's not. Get a grip. Given a choice, anyone in their right mind would do better buying one of those cheap consoles you mentioned, regardless of how highly you regard some feature that no one else cares about because they don't use it ... or don't make enough money to spread the $1-2K difference out over a couple of years. I get the feeling you would have too, but they just weren't available at the time. Two years from now, the game will change again. I put everything I buy on the market immediately, and when it sells, just go buy another ... even - steven. It's always new.

That said, a few years ago when those didn't exist, you couldn't buy or put together a system at the same price point that could even get close. Even if you bought Behringer gear, you couldn't do it for $2000-$3000, which is the average startup cost of SAC. ($700 32 channel mixer + $900 for 6 stereo comps + $900 for 6 stereo EQs = $2500, and that's not even close to what SAC offers).


Yes, if you want to have a conversation about the cheapest shit you could possibly build, SAC can enter that conversation. If the conversation extends to equipment people actually want to use or need to work quickly on, and/or reliability, marketability, etc. then SAC exits that conversation.

I agree that a great engineer with good equipment can get great sound. A great engineer with even premium equipment can get awesome sound. You simply can't take the equipment out of it.
Well you can believe if you want that a stranger walking by and saying something sounds good is all because of SAC if you want to live in that Kool Aid drenched fantasy land. It must have been the incredible resolution and accuracy of the bottom line JBL consumer products on sticks that were being used that are usually reported here as blowing up on a regular basis. :roll:

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Last edited by soundguy on Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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