I never cease to be amazed

Discussions about the use and operation of SAC (Software Audio Console)

Re: I never cease to be amazed

Postby airickess » Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:10 am

At least that thread has finally been deleted.
This operationwhat character is delusional when he says that customers should just accept a NO from the developer and seller of a product and go on their merry way. He has no idea about how to run a business.
He's also very much out of line when suggesting that Randy would put out contracts on people who... post significant stuff? Is that what he meant? Oh, village idiots confuse me with their lack of logic and basic sentence structure.
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Re: I never cease to be amazed

Postby RBIngraham » Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:27 am

Darn, I was hoping that one would stick around as an example of how developers should talk to paying customers.
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Re: I never cease to be amazed

Postby lowdbrent » Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:59 am

He has a point to some extent. If you try the product before you buy it, buy the product as it is, then you have what you purchased. Technically speaking, he does not owe you anything further. It would be nice if he continued to develop and fix it for free, but who can eat and keep the lights on with that type of model?

You can dink with this stuff, or you can buy something else from a real company, with real employees, tech support, field reps, retail representation, and hold them accountable. Until then, you have to understand that you are buying experimental product from a guy in a garage.
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Re: I never cease to be amazed

Postby RBIngraham » Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:11 pm

lowdbrent wrote:He has a point to some extent. If you try the product before you buy it, buy the product as it is, then you have what you purchased. Technically speaking, he does not owe you anything further. It would be nice if he continued to develop and fix it for free, but who can eat and keep the lights on with that type of model?

You can dink with this stuff, or you can buy something else from a real company, with real employees, tech support, field reps, retail representation, and hold them accountable. Until then, you have to understand that you are buying experimental product from a guy in a garage.


I won't argue that with you. But you know as well as I, that is not how things really happened over time there. I never said that I felt ripped off or that I didn't get my money out of the SAC/SAW investment.

And it's not just the lack of further development that is the most annoying. It is the response to any suggestion that it might not already be perfect as it or any question about what the status of further development is. And the tone of those responses. If "he" so desperately wanted people to respect him, he should look in the mirror and think about how he responded to the customers that did support him. There are a lot of reasons that the SAC ship is sinking. But I don't think lack of further development is why so many have stopped bothering to pay any attention or contribute to the old forum. It's because the tone of the forum starts with it's administrator and it rolls down to all the participants. I wasn't adversarial in my posts until the developer made adversarial responses to my questions. Or at least I tried not to be, even if it didn't always read that way.

And then there is the fact that he said he was going to do things and never did them. If you say I'll make X, then you should follow through and do so. Even if it takes a while. Or if you change your mind and chose not to, then just be up front and honest about it and then a customer knows where they stand.

As for buying an experimental product, there are lots of small companies in our industry that make all sorts of things. While I guess you could just buy everything you ever wanted from Yamaha and Harman that would only get you so far, particularly if you have more specialized applications such as theatrical audio. Pretty much all the Broadway, West End and professional theatres and training facilities around the world use software and hardware that would fall into your experimental category to run their shows every day. All the popular playback and show control applications are tiny operations with a handful of folks at the most or they are a single person. Yet despite that I have used or tried out pretty much all of the popular options at some point in time, I don't think I've ever run across a developer like Bob before. That doesn't mean they were all perfect. Just means that none of them were quite that unique in their approach to both potential and current customers.
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Re: I never cease to be amazed

Postby jlepore » Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:32 pm

lowdbrent wrote:He has a point to some extent. If you try the product before you buy it, buy the product as it is, then you have what you purchased. Technically speaking, he does not owe you anything further. It would be nice if he continued to develop and fix it for free, but who can eat and keep the lights on with that type of model?

You can dink with this stuff, or you can buy something else from a real company, with real employees, tech support, field reps, retail representation, and hold them accountable. Until then, you have to understand that you are buying experimental product from a guy in a garage.


Sorry, but he made direct statements as to what he was going to include in the product, along with "schedule" to entice me to buy SAW (after complaining in part that my problems were trying to use another method to record). He told me the ability to record outputs and busses (a requirement for me) would be done in January or February, so I should take advantage of the "sale" so I didnt have to pay full price later.

3 YEARS later, this isn't even on the radar. That was an outright lie, very similar to the ones he continues to tell people to get them to keep buying product know he is not doing a damn bit of development on it anymore. What he does on that forum to to pretend that there are no problems EVER, no flaws, great new things are coming, etc. to get people to continue buying. It is obvious that he has now switched from the pro market (who everyone I talk to says he's just a joke) to the newbie market of dumb kids that he can pursuade to buy his "replacement for $300,000 consoles". That is why the conversation over there is just a bunch of newbie no-nothings blathering about audio 101 topics.

Anyone that actually KNOWS anything or of the history is quickly silenced.
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Re: I never cease to be amazed

Postby digitaloutput » Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:00 pm

Well, I do have a clue about audio and I did that post up there about RB.I don't give a shit about you guys that think you have seen it all and you know the best.It's a clear statement! If you are not satisfied, just move on.Let the guy do what he wants to do.You've paid for what you've got and nothing more.
What you have is what you have paid for.You have not paid for future features and updates, you've paid for the SAC 2.1 or 3.The rest is an option, that might not happen.So there is no need for jamming up the free space on the forum.Leave the guy alone and do your jobs!
The other thing here is, if you are on the amp project and you're developing it...just do it, and stop talking around.I have friends billionairs.The first thing they've told me was: don't talk about it, but act.So stop writing about SAC and you'll be feeling much better.Invest your time in inventing a better software that will hold together everything we ever wanted SAC to be.If you don't have enough money ask the Arabs to invest, they like to be 1st and the best in everything.
Lot can be done, and design can be betted...but work with what you got and don't look back.Leave the guy alone, and you'll be better off.
My uncle is a millionair in Slovenia, a small country not bigger than NY.He has it's own clinic and he lives like a price.He was always telling me, don't look at others, but do your own thing and you'll find the path.I don't care if Bob don't give in some inovations...I don't care! As long as I have the opportunity to create the system on my own, I'm the BOSS! So are you! Just do your own things and keep out spam from the SACfrorum.That's it...
Anyway, I did aplyed for beta tester but there are no more SLOTS to fill in.So, gotta wait...But I'm more interested in that German software that was 64bit, muticore support....

Anyway, interestin to see you bitching about every post on the SACforum ;D
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Re: I never cease to be amazed

Postby shmick » Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:18 pm

Uh oh, someone forgot to take their meds again.
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Re: I never cease to be amazed

Postby lowdbrent » Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:52 pm

I feel the pain. I just had a different take on it. I was exposed to SAW the FIRST time around, exposed to it when Mr. Westbrooks was importing D&R consoles into the USA. In fact, he introduced me. So, I was conditioned for snail speed.
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Re: I never cease to be amazed

Postby jlepore » Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:02 pm

Ignoring the 90% of the babling in that post.....

dear idiot:
We are all customers and have the right to complain about being sold a bill of goods and lack of support for fixing broken areas of the product.
We have been here longer than you obviously, so we have seen and heard all the promises (which have long since been cleansed from the other forum in a coverup)
You do not tell anyone who can post where or how they want. You have absolutely no say in that.
We will continue working with the person that is writing a competing product that does fix a lot of the SAC issues, as well as support current hardware and standard software designs. Unlike Bob, they will not release something half baked just to take money and leave people high and dry. It sound like a good idea you were not invited to the beta.

If you don't want to be part of this forum, you may certainly leave.
Want to be an idiot, many people here WILL ask you leave. We have no tolerance for the bullshit that goes on over there.
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Re: I never cease to be amazed

Postby RBIngraham » Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:49 pm

digitaloutput wrote:Anyway, interestin to see you bitching about every post on the SACforum ;D


Kind of like you bitch about everyone of my posts no matter if you understand what I said or not? If I said the sky is blue you would probably come up with some half baked argument revolving around the fact of how some rich prick told you it wasn't or some major act you probably pushed a road box for had turned the sky to green.

I find it terribly ironic that you now embrace the fact that anyone who is considering SAC should do so with the understanding that little to no further development is likely to happen, because that is pretty much what I have been telling people for years now. Only some won't listen and do the equivelant of sticking their head in the sand.


:horse:
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