Using BCR2000 with SAC

Discussions about the use and operation of SAC (Software Audio Console)

Using BCR2000 with SAC

Postby shmick » Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:00 pm

Since our system remains packed up except for Sundays, I don't have much time for my own trial and error, so I'll see if I can get some answers here.

I'm looking into using the BCR2000 to allow folks to make changes to their own mixes with ease. A little gaff tape and a sharpie to label the channels should be fine.

1) With the latest midi templated, can all 32 encoders on the BCR2000 be used to control 32 channels?

2) Am I correct in assuming that the buttons below the first row of 8 means that you can only solo/mute the first 8 channels?

3) Would there be any other way to mute a channel on the other 24 encoders? eg: via the push function on the encoder. Not being able to do this isn't a big deal.
Host: ASUS P5Q SE/R, Intel E8400 O/C'd to 3.8ghz, 3 x RME HDSP 9652, XP Pro
Gear: 9 x ADA8K, 4 x Audiorails, 1 x BCF2000
Config: FOH + 12 stereo IEM mixes
Misc: Dual Linkwitz-Riley plugin, Studio Levelizer, Studio Reverb, Frequency Analyzer, SAWStudioLite
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Re: Using BCR2000 with SAC

Postby Craig » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:30 pm

I love the BCR and use it all the time with SAC.

1 - yes.
2 - no, you can mute or solo any channel you want, you just have to program them and then never change the channel order.
3 - yes, any programmable button an be programmed to mute any channel you want.
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Re: Using BCR2000 with SAC

Postby shmick » Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:33 am

Sweet. Thanks for info!
Host: ASUS P5Q SE/R, Intel E8400 O/C'd to 3.8ghz, 3 x RME HDSP 9652, XP Pro
Gear: 9 x ADA8K, 4 x Audiorails, 1 x BCF2000
Config: FOH + 12 stereo IEM mixes
Misc: Dual Linkwitz-Riley plugin, Studio Levelizer, Studio Reverb, Frequency Analyzer, SAWStudioLite
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Re: Using BCR2000 with SAC

Postby RBIngraham » Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:35 am

By latest templates I'm assuming you mean the generic MIDI template that allows for all 102 channel strips or whatever it is?


Craig pretty much answered your questions but keep in mind that the top row of encoders and buttons have 4 preset buttons next to them. So you could potentially program those with 4 separate banks of various functions as needed. (with no banking within SAC itself)

Since these templates allow access to all 102 strips you don't necessarily have to reorder your channel strips in order to put something on the surface. What I mean is that you just because there may be 24 knobs that doesn't mean knob 1 has to be controller #1 and knob 24 is controller #24... you could go crazy and go controller number 1,5,6,9,22,55,77,33,,48, etc... and not necessarily have the controller order match the screen order. I personally wouldn't get too crazy with that but it can be handy for things like making some faders or knobs be Master levels without having to move that Master Channel around on the screen, etc...
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SAC details and goodies at: http://www.rbicompaudio.20m.com/SAC.html
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Re: Using BCR2000 with SAC

Postby shmick » Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:55 pm

Also handy info. Thanks!

Rather than the BCR, I might take a stab at doing up something with TouchOSC
Host: ASUS P5Q SE/R, Intel E8400 O/C'd to 3.8ghz, 3 x RME HDSP 9652, XP Pro
Gear: 9 x ADA8K, 4 x Audiorails, 1 x BCF2000
Config: FOH + 12 stereo IEM mixes
Misc: Dual Linkwitz-Riley plugin, Studio Levelizer, Studio Reverb, Frequency Analyzer, SAWStudioLite
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Re: Using BCR2000 with SAC

Postby shmick » Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:02 pm

Well, the Midi Custom 102 template works, but not the way I had thought it would. The 102 channels are not statically assigned so that 1-72 = inputs, 73-78 = returns, 79-102 = outputs. They are whatever order they appear on the screen. By default, 79 = Output 1, but if you move Output 1 to the right of input 16, for example, then Midi CC number 17 now controls output 1, not Midi CC number 79.

I can see how this can also be handy, but it's yet another thing in SAC where the default behaviour should be selectable by the user.
Host: ASUS P5Q SE/R, Intel E8400 O/C'd to 3.8ghz, 3 x RME HDSP 9652, XP Pro
Gear: 9 x ADA8K, 4 x Audiorails, 1 x BCF2000
Config: FOH + 12 stereo IEM mixes
Misc: Dual Linkwitz-Riley plugin, Studio Levelizer, Studio Reverb, Frequency Analyzer, SAWStudioLite
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Re: Using BCR2000 with SAC

Postby Craig » Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:34 pm

Yes, you are correct. While I've adjusted to it, I'd prefer it to work the other way.
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Re: Using BCR2000 with SAC

Postby RBIngraham » Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:38 pm

Yeah, I would have warned you but I couldn't remember if it changed when you moved channels or not, since I've stopped caring.

Still that is at least consistent. SAC MIDI control was always about the channel order, so at least it works like the other templates. And that template was as clise as we would ever get to what it really should be, which is right click any fader or knob, click learn, wiggle something on your controller and it's assigned, which is how most DAWs have worked for probably a good 5 to 10 years now or so....
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Re: Using BCR2000 with SAC

Postby shmick » Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:54 pm

Yeah, this wont really work for our situation, as we reorder channels at will and this will force things to be a little too static in terms of how things are laid out on the screen.

I sent an email to Bob asking if it's possible for a "static" style 102 template. I don't really expect a useful response, but who knows, maybe it's already "in the work" and will make it's way into the 2018 update :)
Host: ASUS P5Q SE/R, Intel E8400 O/C'd to 3.8ghz, 3 x RME HDSP 9652, XP Pro
Gear: 9 x ADA8K, 4 x Audiorails, 1 x BCF2000
Config: FOH + 12 stereo IEM mixes
Misc: Dual Linkwitz-Riley plugin, Studio Levelizer, Studio Reverb, Frequency Analyzer, SAWStudioLite
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Re: Using BCR2000 with SAC

Postby shmick » Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:42 pm

Interesting, I think I've just stumbled upon a bug in the 102 channel midi template.

When I restart the TouchOSC app, all the faders are at at their default position, which is right at the bottom. If I switch mixers and switch back, the faders are at their correct position, but only the input channel faders. The output channel faders don't get updated until you move the the fader on either the SAC window or via the TouchOSC app.

This is with leaving all of the faders in their stock positions, no channels moved to a different position.

For a second test, I moved Output 1 way down to position 16 and restarted the app. This time it updated the Output 1 fader position, but Output 2, in it's stock location, failed to update.

Now to see where it breaks. I'm guessing either at the 33 or 65 mark, thinking something is coded somewhere for a max of 32 or 64 updates at once.
Host: ASUS P5Q SE/R, Intel E8400 O/C'd to 3.8ghz, 3 x RME HDSP 9652, XP Pro
Gear: 9 x ADA8K, 4 x Audiorails, 1 x BCF2000
Config: FOH + 12 stereo IEM mixes
Misc: Dual Linkwitz-Riley plugin, Studio Levelizer, Studio Reverb, Frequency Analyzer, SAWStudioLite
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