Band fired over SAC failures

Discussions about the use and operation of SAC (Software Audio Console)

Band fired over SAC failures

Postby jlepore » Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:49 am

I just heard the B level national act playing at another stage at the festival I was at was fired from a multi year festival contract due to failure to perform an acceptable show any of the 8 times they played. Apparently their SAC rig failed each time in mostly the same way. Even following the Bob play book of blaming everything else did not work on the festival bosses who know a line of bullshit when they hear it.

This was on a large system and a user that has been using SAC "forever". Sad thing is if he didn't have such a cocky attitude or studied the problems I had in the past, he would have known the answer. Based on the symptoms my coworkers described I know exactly what it was. It cost his band a profitable recurring gig, and who knows what will happen to the engineers that couldn't :o et it right in 5 days!
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Re: Band fired over SAC failures

Postby RBIngraham » Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:07 am

Joe you didn't sabotage their rig with a laptop and SAC remote did you? :-)
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Re: Band fired over SAC failures

Postby jlepore » Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:55 pm

Nope .. I was way out of range .. besides, mine would have just shut down the system - theirs created wonderful distortion to many hundreds of people.
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Re: Band fired over SAC failures

Postby RBIngraham » Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:38 pm

Awesome
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Re: Band fired over SAC failures

Postby jlepore » Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:59 pm

Kind of funny that a "customer service" thread just popped up over there. Considering the owner of the system (and failed backup system) knows Bob and said he's been to his house, I wonder why he didn't get such support and service? I even had to help them get their VSTi's working on their backup machine.

And if you're reading this dude ... Maybe next time you won't be a dick to my coworkers and I would have helped you more ... Especially since the second sac owner I described the symptoms to had the same answer I did in under a minute. Boy are you gonna be pissed when you figure out what happened. Then maybe you'll get over the hero worship and "my system doesn't have problems" etc. There's a reason I don't trust sac to any important gigs anymore (like that one) ... And you just found it the hard way. I had a backup desk and could run my show on it. Not sure why your band couldn't make due with a m7cl and a sc48......
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Re: Band fired over SAC failures

Postby shmick » Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:41 pm

For those of us who haven't run into this problem yet, can you elaborate on what causes it and what the symptoms are?
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Re: Band fired over SAC failures

Postby Butch » Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:35 pm

The engineer should have been replaced long before 8 F'd shows no matter what system was being used but using SAC you BETTER know how to trouble shoot computers and have a backup in the truck
I have had 3 failers in 4 years never a show stopper always at start up 1 bad power supply and 2 loose cards
All 3 fixed in less than 5 min
AND I still don't like the Koolaid so please don't give me any sh@# Joe :lol:

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Re: Band fired over SAC failures

Postby Jeffsco » Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:57 am

Hoping you'll elaborate on the cause of the system failure Joe. From reading your posts thru the years I realize you push the SAC system to levels that I don't. But It would be good to know as to whether it's something that could affect a basic user.
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Re: Band fired over SAC failures

Postby jlepore » Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:31 pm

I will not elaborate on the failure yet. There are a few points I want to make clear, as some comments make it appear the Assumptions are getting in the way of what I actually said.

1. This was not in any way MY sac rig. This was a rig built by a very long time user (5+ years in his own words).
2. This is a national touring act with an engineer that has been in the business for a long time.
3. They have a rack with multiple machines, redundant splits, etc. BOTH systems failed.
4. The person is apparently comfortable pushing the system beyond the level that I ever would based on features and load.
5. It is a problem I have seen before (but exists only on my system of course :? ) and had been reported.
6. The engineer is a kool-aid drinker that has visited Bob. The way he treated my coworkers and tried to pass off blame is what led me to the decision to not spend my time to help him. He simply didn't realize the caliber of techs that were on that stage. Bottom line, not one of us there would ever fail to perform a show twice in a row, much less 8 times! There was a set of professional desks there that we're used for the other 6 shows a day in that room that went of flawlessly.

I may release details later but I see based on the bands calendar they have additional shows coming up soon. I do not want to help this fool fix his problem before that. Let the system fail at the next gig and hopefully the band will give this guy his well deserved vacation. They are probably the only ones that could possibly believe there was a problem with our racks and stacks that could cause 6 different amps to simultaneously fail at very specific times in their show only :mrgreen: I just
wish I was there to see it personally but I was busy with my own national acts on the other side of the complex.

So .. Specific responses:

Jeffsco: yes, it can effect anyone at any time.

Butch: it was not a hardware failure and they did have a backup but no analytical skills. Sad really. It's funny but the thing I always think of is what they tell pilots when they get in trouble ... Job 1 is just fly the plane, then worry about the other issues. These guys failed to do that and crashed and burned. They could have run a show without bells and whistles and still gotten through it, most people wouldn't have noticed, and they wouldn't have been fired. It's not like we wouldn't let them use the perfectly good digital desks sitting there, and I would suspect before they pissed everyone off, they could have had 2 excellent engineers help them pull it off ... After all, who in this business doesn't get off on a good challenge?!
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Re: Band fired over SAC failures

Postby airickess » Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:58 pm

To me it reads like operator error more than anything. When I read "VSTis" I just had to shake my head. I rarely use VST plug-ins in SAC because of the unpredictable load they put on the software - SAC does not do well when hot patching some VSTs. I've even had the native delay plug-in crash by simply using the tap tempo feature. I wouldn't dare to use any VSTi plug-ins in SAC. Besides the load factor, I believe VSTi's used live are just band-aids for poor instrument tuning, poor mic choice or mic placement, or a cheap substitute for pieces of gear that the individual musicians should be carrying anyway. Using one or two instances of reverb in SAC is all I will do.
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