Yet Another Nail...

Discussions about the use and operation of SAC (Software Audio Console)

Re: Yet Another Nail...

Postby randyhyde » Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:46 am

Interestingly enough, I posted the link over at the other site (with no comments) and it seems to have been immediately yanked...
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Re: Yet Another Nail...

Postby randyhyde » Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:50 am

Doug_Danforth wrote:
randyhyde wrote:http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/mackie_launches_all-new_dl32r_32-channel_wireless_digital_mixer_with_ipad_c/


This has no chance of success. Everyone knows you cannot mix without real faders......


Well, I'm a lot more scared of operating the thing over WiFi (with, AFAICT, no other way to adjust the mix). I've never been completely happy using SAC (granted, not the "best in class" where WiFi access is concerned) when operating in an RF-rich environment (e.g., lots of people with cell phones). To me, this is like operating without a backup plan... However, to each his own.

Cheers,
Randy Hyde
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Re: Yet Another Nail...

Postby RBIngraham » Thu Oct 16, 2014 12:43 pm

randyhyde wrote:Interestingly enough, I posted the link over at the other site (with no comments) and it seems to have been immediately yanked...



Probably because I made a smart ass remark, something like... "watchout Randy, or you'll get a scolding private email from the self appointed forum police..."...

Or maybe it's just because Bob has gotten ticked off at all that other product talk on his site... but I'm pretty sure it's um .... and .... kissing hind end and pointing out any potential violations of the rules of engagement because for a while there it seemed like he wasn't even paying any attention at all... :)
Richard B. Ingraham
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http://www.rbicompaudio.20m.com/
SAC details and goodies at: http://www.rbicompaudio.20m.com/SAC.html
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Re: Yet Another Nail...

Postby Doug_Danforth » Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:11 am

This product does seem oddly positioned. I agree it could be nice for a small band, especially one without a dedicated FOH person. Nice and compact and run from the stage. But how many small bands need 32 inputs? We have 3 guitars, sax, keys, etc. and only use about 24 regularly.

Moreover, I don't think I would want to mix 32 inputs on an iPad all night, even if I could move multiple faders at once.

It certainly does reinforce the price point of $2000 - $3000 for this sized system. Hope that doesn't bode ill for AMP.

Doug
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Re: Yet Another Nail...

Postby randyhyde » Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:44 am

RBIngraham wrote:
randyhyde wrote:Interestingly enough, I posted the link over at the other site (with no comments) and it seems to have been immediately yanked...



Probably because I made a smart ass remark, something like... "watchout Randy, or you'll get a scolding private email from the self appointed forum police..."...

Or maybe it's just because Bob has gotten ticked off at all that other product talk on his site... but I'm pretty sure it's um .... and .... kissing hind end and pointing out any potential violations of the rules of engagement because for a while there it seemed like he wasn't even paying any attention at all... :)


Must be. Someone else posted a link to it and it has lived through several comments now.
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Re: Yet Another Nail...

Postby gdougherty » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:59 am

RBIngraham wrote:
Doug_Danforth wrote:
randyhyde wrote:http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/mackie_launches_all-new_dl32r_32-channel_wireless_digital_mixer_with_ipad_c/


This has no chance of success. Everyone knows you cannot mix without real faders......


Sadly, the cool factor and slick visuals will probably get some suckers to buy it. :)

But you won't catch me buying one of these toys where if you're ipad craps out, you're SOL. And yes... I still insist on having some physical faders. I just don't need one for every channel on the desk. I want to see someone mix more than a bar band and do it well with just a touch screen.

I've used a pair of iPads to approximate an x32 Compact. It still wasn't as nice as a surface with dedicated controls for much of the channel functions.
I've been mixing on an iPad for quite some time now and while it works, it takes a lot of mental work to move around quickly and accomplish more complex series of tasks between songs that may not be configurable as a stored scene change.
http://softwareaudioconsole.wikidot.com The start of a wiki. It's slow going and there's a ton of info that should be in there yet.
Biggest item is the Command Reference on how to do most actions within SAC. It's 90% of what you need for UI proficiency.

g is for George
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Re: Yet Another Nail...

Postby RBIngraham » Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:51 pm

gdougherty wrote:I've used a pair of iPads to approximate an x32 Compact. It still wasn't as nice as a surface with dedicated controls for much of the channel functions.
I've been mixing on an iPad for quite some time now and while it works, it takes a lot of mental work to move around quickly and accomplish more complex series of tasks between songs that may not be configurable as a stored scene change.


Interesting. Doesn't really surprise me, but it's interesting to hear first hand experience. The whole touch screen thing is fine for wandering the room, walking out on stage to adjust monitor mixes while standing right next to the person and for simple acts where it's mostly a set and forget kind of mix, just keeping an eye on things during the show. But I can not imagine at all where it would be easy to keep one finger on a vocal fader while you flip to tweak an EQ or some setting on other channels, which is very easy on a typical mixer or even AMP and SAC.

In general touch screens are good for a few things, such as showing graphics of things like EQ curves and eliminating the need for a ton of seldom used buttons, like the stuff that gets buried in set up menus. A touch screen there eliminates the need to use arrow keys and such to "mouse" around the set up screens. But for most of our common tasks they are not all that great. There is no physical feedback to know what you're doing without looking down at the screen. You don't build up muscle memory where you just automatically reach for fader or knob X like you can on a surface, etc...

They are a compromise. What you gain is something you can tuck under your arm and wander the space or shove in a small bag at the end of the night and your FOH position is clear. :)

And they make the hardware cheap because the most expensive part of any digital mixer is the faders, knobs, displays, buttons, etc.. And if you just write an app to run what is essentially now just a rack mount DSP mixer, which we've really had for years now, it's just that they now have a fixed architecture that matches a typical live mixing console. It also means that they have the potential to customize and update the UI for the hardware a lot easier than any hardware console, which has always been the advantage of software. It's just that one early developer of software mixing doesn't like make changes. :)
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Re: Yet Another Nail...

Postby shmick » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:23 pm

Attach some of these suction cup physical faders and you're good to go!

http://www.ionaudio.com/products/details/scratch-2-go
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Re: Yet Another Nail...

Postby RBIngraham » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:29 pm

LOL.... yeah... or just buy a real control surface... :-)
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SAC details and goodies at: http://www.rbicompaudio.20m.com/SAC.html
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Re: Yet Another Nail...

Postby RBIngraham » Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:59 pm

Before this thread disappears:

http://www.sawstudiouser.com/forums/sho ... hp?t=17606


I had to save it.... yet another one that I had tried to tell them what was what, but woulnd't listen.... and then argued with me to boot, but has now seen what I was trying to tell him years ago... :roll:
Attachments
AC User Group.pdf
(262.09 KiB) Downloaded 893 times
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SAC details and goodies at: http://www.rbicompaudio.20m.com/SAC.html
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