Show Stopper

Discussions about the use and operation of SAC (Software Audio Console)

Show Stopper

Postby BrettBrandon » Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:56 am

I do sub in work for this band on an almost regular basis (couple few times a month). They had sac for a couple of years but switched to Behringer X32 rack a year or more ago.
This stopper actually has to do with the layout of the X32 app.
Originally they were using mute groups for the vocals, drums, ect. The problem was that they are all inears and they were used to sac where if foh was muted, they could still talk amongst themselves thru the mics and ears.
The foh mutes on the X32 mutes everything. The fix for this was to use dca's for the mutes.... Problem solved.
There are a few iPads around the stage so the performers can adjust their ears themselves. They use the Sends On Fader mode for this.
Tonight while the male vocalist wasn't singing, he went back to adjust his mix, and to choose your mix, the button you hit looks just like the mute group buttons (although they are located in a different place).
Well aparently they never undid the mute groups that they are not using anymore, and the vocalist muted the vocals, and then the instruments....

I didn't know what was going on and at first thought we had lost some power. As I am approaching the stage (I'm standing to the side of the dance floor with an iPad), I see all the vocals muted, ect....
The band freaked and just stopped.

I blame Behringer in part for letting a musician adjusting their monitor mix, to have access to foh controls like mute groups.....
I have also had on a couple of occasions where they didn't hit the sends on fader button and they were altering the main mix.
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Re: Show Stopper

Postby ssrsound » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:29 am

x32-q is probably a better app for them to use on stage -- its more designed for personal mixes on stage. You set the output you're affecting, and its tough to accidentally change it. Plus it shows up as a banner across the top. You have less minute control -- just per-channel gain and pan on your mix and not much else... so its much safer.

I really do like bob's concept, though, of separate security on the FOH mix so that you can decide which clients have the ability to make changes to it. I wish more of the newer boards would adopt that model.
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Re: Show Stopper

Postby jlepore » Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:47 pm

If you like that, you're really going to love the control in AMP
Gigabyte H55-USB3 i5-650/4G/XP/SSD Profire 2626x3/ADAx2/MLA7x1 Motormix x2 AMP/SAC/SAWLite
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Re: Show Stopper

Postby RBIngraham » Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:11 pm

Of course this is also why those that can afford it use a seperate console for monitors from house mix. Means they can only screw up their own monitor mix. Or you pick up the behringer personal mixers like so many consoles have now... that way the only thing any one individual can screw up is their own mix.

I guess Joe's job as monitor mixer is probably safe, as those that can afford it will also just pay a human to keep track of this for them.... LOL....

Sorry Brett, while I don't care much for Behringer, I find it hard to totally blame them when in reality they have solutions to your issues.... the band just has to pay for them, or if not... then be willing to live with the less ideal UI... and potential pitfalls.
Richard B. Ingraham
RBI Computers and Audio
http://www.rbicompaudio.20m.com/
SAC details and goodies at: http://www.rbicompaudio.20m.com/SAC.html
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Re: Show Stopper

Postby BrettBrandon » Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:29 pm

I'm not totally blaming them, the singer screwed up.
But if they had a way to set permissions for remotes, that couldn't happen.
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Re: Show Stopper

Postby RBIngraham » Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:37 pm

And then there would also be less reason for you to buy the personal mixers as well.... :-)


Lets remember that 1st and foremost they want to sell you hardware.... not a software product, because that is where they make money.
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http://www.rbicompaudio.20m.com/
SAC details and goodies at: http://www.rbicompaudio.20m.com/SAC.html
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Re: Show Stopper

Postby jlepore » Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:07 pm

I do believe their phone app is a lot more restrictive - kind of keeps people where they belong a lot better than the full iPad app.
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Re: Show Stopper

Postby gdougherty » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:28 am

As already mentioned, this is not Behringer's fault. X32 Mix is the wrong app and absolutely should not be used by anyone except those who need FOH control. Blaming Behringer would be like blaming Stanley for screwing up your laptop because their hammer wouldn't pound the screws out of your laptop.

X32-q is the personal monitor mixing app and runs just fine on iPads. It's actually nicer than on a phone due to the larger screen. It will allow for switching mixes, but I haven't found anyone in a band wanting to purposefully mess with other people's mix and if you label the mixbus they can clearly see what they're adjusting.
http://softwareaudioconsole.wikidot.com The start of a wiki. It's slow going and there's a ton of info that should be in there yet.
Biggest item is the Command Reference on how to do most actions within SAC. It's 90% of what you need for UI proficiency.

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Re: Show Stopper

Postby BrettBrandon » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:32 am

And apparently has been broken with the current iPhone operating system.
The app's reviews were complaining last year about it and then the comments stop. Nothing this year.

I have had the app on my phone for some time but never found it very useable. Especially for a live musician.
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Re: Show Stopper

Postby BrettBrandon » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:44 am

gdougherty wrote:X32-q is the personal monitor mixing app and runs just fine on iPads. It's actually nicer than on a phone due to the larger screen. It will allow for switching mixes, but I haven't found anyone in a band wanting to purposefully mess with other people's mix and if you label the mixbus they can clearly see what they're adjusting.

I just loaded it on my iPad and that is exactly what they need.

I don't have an X32 here so I can only try demo mode but have two questions.
One, I don't see where you set the aux it is affecting (probably a demo mode thing).
Two, they share iPads so they need more than one aux per iPad.
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