Will you pay for a SAC update?

Discussions about the use and operation of SAC (Software Audio Console)

Will you pay for a SAC update?

Yes
4
20%
No
6
30%
Maybe, if it finally has feature X
10
50%
 
Total votes : 20

Will you pay for a SAC update?

Postby shmick » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:30 pm

While following up with Bob through email about functionality of the generic 102 channel midi template, he gave me the classic "hopefully soon" response, but also mentioned that a $100 SAC update is coming.
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Re: Will you pay for a SAC update?

Postby jlepore » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:40 pm

So is that going to be his way of saying no more support (as if he hasn't already done that) - only the Kool-Aid drinkers will pay, and then they will learn too.

It's not like anyone would be paying for anything new - and I refuse to pay for bug-fixes.
It would be nice for him to actually provide the features he told people were going to be there while enticing them to buy the software in the first place.
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Re: Will you pay for a SAC update?

Postby shmick » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:47 am

The funny thing is that if there was a $25 or $50 per year subscription / maintenance fee, I think he would have managed to have almost everyone sign up for it as there was a lot of development happening and I'm more than happy to pay people for their time. Fast forward 5+ years and the thought of paying a one time $100 upgrade seems like a slap in the face. Unless it's got features like Monitor View and support for things like OSC, I can't see anyone willing to pay what appears to be a random fee for bug fixes.

Mr Lentini: I sure hope you surprise us all with some amazing features if you're asking for a paid update.

Mr Puff: I sure hope you release AMP soon as the demand is probably going to ramp up if the paid SAC update is a dud.
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Re: Will you pay for a SAC update?

Postby RBIngraham » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:22 am

It has probably been close to 2 years now since I hit the point that I wouldn't spend any more money on RML software. Or I would have upgraded to SAW Full by now. (that's about the only investment I could make since I have everything else at this point)

I voted No, mostly because I already have AMP but frankly if it hadn't come along by now I probably would have been investing in either the Behringer X crap (yeah I know... it's great for the money and some seem to love it, but for me it would have been a step back in several ways) or perhaps the Soundcraft gear.

But you are right, just a few short years ago I would have been willing to pay as much as $200-$250 if there had been a paid upgrade with actual new features. I suggested a paid update to Bob L. on several occasions. I really don't get why that wasn't standard operating procedure. But then of course you have to actually deliver on the promises and make the updates worth while.
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Re: Will you pay for a SAC update?

Postby randyhyde » Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:04 am

I'd certainly pay $100 for an upgrade.
Obviously, it would have to have some new features or there would be no purpose in it.
Now whether I'm in need of those new features or not, I'd still pay for the upgrade because it would be a good way to encourage Bob to begin working on SAC again.

Even if it were just "bug fixes" I'd probably consider the upgrade. My sound business (low-level that it is) depends upon SAC. Spending $100 to eliminate some bugs that might cause problems for me in the future would be a wise investment (to be honest, none of the existing bugs have ever caused me much problem). OTOH, do note that any "enhancements" to a software product tend to introduce new problems, so....

That said, I'd buy SAC all over again if it had decent control surface support added to it.
Bob has certainly got to be feeling the heat from all the sub-$5,000 consoles (even the GLD is in this category!) these days. The new rack-based digital mixers may be pushing people towards software control of the mix, but it's still my impression that the vast majority of people want a hardware control surface. The low-cost digital mixers have reduced SAC's target audience to about 20% of what it used to be: a few cheapskates who are willing to build SAC from a used computer and Behringer preamps (possibly under $1,000) and those who need the flexibility of SAC in an under-$5,000 rig.

There is no hope that the complexity of SAC (and its abominable UI) will ever be fixed. Little hope for better documentation. Decent hope for a few new features (like "monitor view"). Not holding my breath for better control surface support.

What I *would* be willing to pay quite a bit for is the source code to SAC Remote. Presumably, all the magic in SAC is in the mix engine (which, I assume, is not present in SAC Remote's source code). Open-sourcing (or even selling with an NDA) SAC Remote source code would make SAC very interesting again.
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Re: Will you pay for a SAC update?

Postby jlepore » Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:21 am

Randy,

Once you use AMP once, you will be saying SAC who?
Get past the VST thing and there is nothing that won't be better in AMP. (And we already have monitor view!)
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Re: Will you pay for a SAC update?

Postby RBIngraham » Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:40 am

jlepore wrote:Randy,

Once you use AMP once, you will be saying SAC who?
Get past the VST thing and there is nothing that won't be better in AMP. (And we already have monitor view!)


And vastly better control surface support that I suspect will only get better with time.

I actually opened up SAC the other day and had to think all over again about how to navigate around things. Mostly was just thinking to see if I could use it for a some static mix stuff and wanted to make sure my memory was serving me correctly. :)
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Re: Will you pay for a SAC update?

Postby RBIngraham » Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:46 am

randyhyde wrote:What I *would* be willing to pay quite a bit for is the source code to SAC Remote. Presumably, all the magic in SAC is in the mix engine (which, I assume, is not present in SAC Remote's source code). Open-sourcing (or even selling with an NDA) SAC Remote source code would make SAC very interesting again.
Cheers,
Randy Hyde


How much you wanna bet that SAC Remote is the same package with just a few "switches" thrown to turn off the audio engine? 8-)

OK, so I never gamble since I think it's for people who are bad at math... but it certainly wouldn't surprise me.


As much as I would like to sell you on AMP however Randy, I think given all we've discussed over the year you would/will be better off with a hardware mixer. But for the shows you mix yourself it will be far better than SAC.

Of course you'll also have to get over dongle phobia. ;)
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Re: Will you pay for a SAC update?

Postby BrettBrandon » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:39 pm

I answered no as there are still things not developed that were promised from the beginning.
I used sac for three years and have just written off the cost vs usage. And I bought it in beta so I didn't pay the full amount to start with.

I am also one of the lucky few who have been using AMP as part of the beta team.
I can't think of anything sac does better. Not having to deal with sac's networking nightmare is a huge plus...

And he just made a 1/3 octave eq. That's really frowned upon on the other site....
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Re: Will you pay for a SAC update?

Postby RBIngraham » Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:38 pm

With all due respect to both Bobs... the VST support in SAC is pretty cool even if the UI for dealing with them sucks and he limits which plugs you can use with the zero latency requirement thing. Bob Puff has certainly not written off VST support for AMP at some point, but it is a ways down the road certainly. Also while not everyone finds the 24 monitor mixer concept in SAC useful I still think that was rather brilliant and innovative at the time. Now almost everyone has something like this, they just do it in hardware with personal monitor mixing boxes. Again if you take out the ugly and clunky UI of making it work it is a pretty neat feature.

I also miss timed fades in scene recalls a great deal. Now that is coming in AMP, but it's not there just yet. And even when AMP does have timed fades I don't expect it to do some of the weird but cool things that SAC can do, like crossfade EQ values and other weird stuff, which my gut says was probably more of a mistake on Bob L's part than a cool design choice. And while it wasn't really useful very often, it can be fun when appropriate.

Granted the number of things I like better about AMP far outnumbers this. (no network bullshit being a big one) But I wouldn't go so far as to say there is nothing SAC does better than AMP. :-)
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