Well, I'm probably going to get banned now...

Discussions about the use and operation of SAC (Software Audio Console)

Well, I'm probably going to get banned now...

Postby BrentEvans » Sat May 23, 2015 10:37 am

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Re: Well, I'm probably going to get banned now...

Postby jlepore » Sat May 23, 2015 7:09 pm

If you want to be sure of it, simply point out AMP does all these "ridiculously complex" things - better, faster, and on newer hardware (actually utilizing it).

That's ok ... he'll figure that out very very soon .... :)
Gigabyte H55-USB3 i5-650/4G/XP/SSD Profire 2626x3/ADAx2/MLA7x1 Motormix x2 AMP/SAC/SAWLite
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Re: Well, I'm probably going to get banned now...

Postby jlepore » Sat May 23, 2015 7:12 pm

And just so we don't lose the rant (and the comedic value)...

You still refuse to understand that the newer OS versions are so kludged up with background stuff that they can no longer perform as well as the old ones... there is nothing wrong with SAC on Win 7 or 8 at all... nothing I need to fix... so it has not fallen behind the current versions... it works fine... but those OS versions will still never match the performance of XP... so there is nothing I can do... the OS has gotten fatter and slower such that it will not perform as well as XP no matter how much code I attempt to write... I am not sure why this is such a hard concept for all of you that complain to grasp.

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to look at the task manager in all three basic installs and see a problem right from the start... look at the average processes count... XP 20-25... Win 7 40-60... Win 8 50-80... there is a difference... period.

Also... the newer versions have changed many of the low level functions and basic OS operation such that it now interferes with the ability of SAC doing what it attempts to do... which is perform realtime operations of a ridiculously complex nature (live processing and routing of 72 channels of audio within 1 or 2 ms per buffer across 25 separate mixing consoles, while handling extremely fast and complex screen manipulation while also keeping up with realtime metering on multiple remotes across a hardwired or wireless network etc.) on a completely NON-REALTIME OS design... there are design limitations in Win 7 and 8 that directly break the ability of the code to do that efficiently... in XP it was possible to bypass certain Windows low level functions in such a way to achieve the performance needed... in Win 7 and 8 that has gotten almost impossible to do in an efficient manner because these low level functions have been altered in such a way as to break the whole concept. In Win 8, the thread priority that made it possible to keep the audio engine itself ontop of most every other Windows operation has been broken in an attempt to even out thread processing across all cores and all processes... this absolutely breaks an engine like SAC which requires some priority to maintain core access within the allotted 1-2 ms looptime.

No matter how many times I try to explain this it is always rebuttled with the idea that this is my failing in some way because I have let the code fall behind the times... NO... the fact is, the OS is no longer capable of performing with a program like SAC as efficiently as before... and the argument that other programs run fine is a complete joke and further just supports my argument of how those complaining have NO IDEA AT ALL about the low level programming code that makes SAC work the way it does... period.... you just can't understand if you don't write code of this nature yourself.

I am extremely tired of these misguided and false accusations about the shortcomings of my code, simply because I continue to suggest that it runs best on XP, which has now been tarred and feathered by the computing community... too bad... we have all been dumbed down so far that we continue to accept less and less quality as we pay more for newer and newer systems that continuously drop the bar lower and lower with every new iteration... and then the masses will defend the new stuff to the death, even though they have no real technical knowledge or understanding of what they are talking about... amazing.

As far as I'm concerned this is the last I want to get involved in this type of ignorant discussion... I am done trying to explain to complainers who refuse to listen to reason... all they want to do is bash... bash... bash... enough already... use whatever system and program you feel is awesome... I will continue using SAC and continue replacing hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of mixing console equipment for pennies on the dollar... I'm fine still building and using XP because that is what gives me the best performance and stability to do the kinds of shows and tours that SAC is doing on a daily basis.

I sincerely hope Win 10 is better than 7 or 8... and XP... but I am not holding my breath.

Bob L


I could take his argument apart piece by piece, but where's the fun in that. Might as well just take candy from a baby.
Gigabyte H55-USB3 i5-650/4G/XP/SSD Profire 2626x3/ADAx2/MLA7x1 Motormix x2 AMP/SAC/SAWLite
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Re: Well, I'm probably going to get banned now...

Postby BrentEvans » Sat May 23, 2015 7:47 pm

Well, since i ensured the threads deletion or cleansing, here it is as of my last post.
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Re: Well, I'm probably going to get banned now...

Postby RBIngraham » Sat May 23, 2015 10:01 pm

It's still there as of 11PM Eastern time....

But thanks for the chuckle for the day. His self denial has gotten so ridiculous that it is what the joke is... not the other software. Somehow magically most new software runs better on newer hardware and versions of the OS. Yeah if you take some 10 year old computer and force Win 8.1 on to it, of course it doesn't work as well as the OS that was new at the time. Even Macs have that issue as the hardware gets older the user experience of a new OS release gets more sour.

But get a new machine and a new OS with up to date hardware, drivers and software and you certainly will see an increase in performance most days.
Richard B. Ingraham
RBI Computers and Audio
http://www.rbicompaudio.20m.com/
SAC details and goodies at: http://www.rbicompaudio.20m.com/SAC.html
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Re: Well, I'm probably going to get banned now...

Postby RBIngraham » Sun May 24, 2015 7:57 am

And it just keeps getting deeper.... someone please archive before its gone
Richard B. Ingraham
RBI Computers and Audio
http://www.rbicompaudio.20m.com/
SAC details and goodies at: http://www.rbicompaudio.20m.com/SAC.html
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Re: Well, I'm probably going to get banned now...

Postby airickess » Sun May 24, 2015 10:30 am

The oddest portion of Bob's posts was the one where he asked Brent to become a booster of the software and sell its merits to others so Bob can sell more copies and hire people to help with the updates. It seemed like he was blaming Brent and others for the low sales and lack of updates rather than himself.
Also, for a guy who often wrote that he is tired of defending his software and business on the forum, calling the defending a "... waste of time...", he does take the time to write very long posts on the subject. Ironic.
Too bad he takes this all so personally and twists it around. If he wasn't prone to doing that and just kept his software up to date then we wouldn't be talking about this and this forum wouldn't exist.
Oh well.
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Re: Well, I'm probably going to get banned now...

Postby BrentEvans » Sun May 24, 2015 12:09 pm

Up to date...

Also of interest is the new claim that in the future SAC might not require an os at all...
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Re: Well, I'm probably going to get banned now...

Postby RBIngraham » Sun May 24, 2015 8:58 pm

No OS at all? Hmmmm... even harware consoles use some kind of OS...

It really is unfortunate that Bob really views the world as out to get him and is paranoid of anyone that isn't constantly and completly singing his praises. He wants it both ways, to be some kind of software hero that delivers a "gift" to the masses while also releasing a comercial product. Unfortunantlyit just doesn't work that way. If you charge for software, unless we are talking shareware type stuff that is more like a donation, then you have customers and they will have opinions, suggestions and yes even complaints as he loves to call them and expectations. So either you deal with that and accept it and handle it with grace, dignity and mutual respect (the lack of which is what I always found the most ironic) or you set yourself up for confrontation and a lot of disgruntled customers.

Oh well, I am with Eric in that if he had just been more upfront and less confrontational, even if he hadn't kept the software up to date, he would still have a lot more followers than he has now and perhaps even a better chance for future sales. But he just turned off so many that were supporters, just like this linked thread, with such a sour attitude that he is now stuck with the simpletons and know nothings as future clients.

A better question about replacing hundreds of thousands of dollars of gear would be.... who other than Lee Pepper and/or Bob himself is chosing to replace these big boy desks with SAC or SAW systems?
Richard B. Ingraham
RBI Computers and Audio
http://www.rbicompaudio.20m.com/
SAC details and goodies at: http://www.rbicompaudio.20m.com/SAC.html
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Re: Well, I'm probably going to get banned now...

Postby BrentEvans » Sun May 24, 2015 11:30 pm

He claims Elton John's tour is using it now... Replaced a 1d. Big whoop...
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