SAC 4.0 has arrived

Discussions about the use and operation of SAC (Software Audio Console)

Re: SAC 4.0 has arrived

Postby randyhyde » Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:52 am

After playing with SAC 4.0 some more, I'm pretty sure that 90% of the problems are related to running the three Mackie control surfaces.

As much as I would like to use Monitor mode (well, and 3-unit Mackie support), it's back to 3.1 for me. Can't afford to risk problems on a show where I'm being paid.

FWIW, I've also noticed the Mackies making random movements (especially when the system first comes up). I seem to recall people with Motormixes making the same sorts of complaints. My guess is that this is a generic bug in the control surface code.

The sad part is that it is pretty obvious that SAC blocks while waiting for the MIDI code to do its thing. For something like MIDI transmissions, it makes so much sense to fire off a separate thread for each controller and let that thread handle the slow data communications while the rest of the system updates the display, etc. Bob seems to be afraid of threads (I guess he doesn't realize you can set priorities so they don't execute during his time-critical mix engine code). I was under the impression that the display code operates in a separate thread already (and the MIDI code seems to be tied to that thread somehow as activating the MIDI code *really* slows down display operations). Too bad this can't be cleaned up. SAC v4.0 would *almost* make me really happy with SAC if it worked properly.

BTW, with the 3 mackie units attached, the load % on my machine goes from 33% to almost 60%. That seems kind of crazy given how little data (in the big scheme of things) gets transmitted over MIDI.
cheers,
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Re: SAC 4.0 has arrived

Postby jlepore » Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:13 am

Yes ... You're seeing the fundamental design flaws - everything that has been avoided in the design of AMP. The midi code does run as part of the sac engine so any flaw in it does threaten the audio path. Those random movements you see are usually people on other remotes or even the host changing mixes. It bumps all the faders. Really annoying if you happen to have your hands on them at the time.

As you have seen, any wrong data on the midi bus can and usually does crash sac - think about what happens when a cable or connection goes bad - I don't have to, it's happened to me during a live show. Sorry you have to debug pre-alpha code, but seriously, what did you expect from Bob - did everyone really just assume there was something wrong with me or my systems that caused his problems?

So here's the thousand dollar question .... Do you think all the problems you're having just exists on your system with your control surfaces, or might they exist on that system in his latest pictures with Sir Elton? Would you like to be there when that guy discovers the flaws you have? I know I'd love to be. I was already present when one sac using band was fired from a multi year contract because of it :)
Gigabyte H55-USB3 i5-650/4G/XP/SSD Profire 2626x3/ADAx2/MLA7x1 Motormix x2 AMP/SAC/SAWLite
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Re: SAC 4.0 has arrived

Postby BrentEvans » Sun Jul 19, 2015 4:51 pm

Imagine the frustration when a MIDI surface fails during a show... on a different machine. That was nutzoid. 2/3 of my motormixes bit the dust IN THE SAME SHOW earlier this month. I had no control and couldn't figure out why until I made it back to FOH>
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Re: SAC 4.0 has arrived

Postby jlepore » Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:23 pm

The exact same thing can happen with a network remote - it's better now since the 2.9 changes, but a few bad bytes of data from a remote have the same catastrophic effect on the system. I even have a nice small program that can generate samples of them :mrgreen:
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Re: SAC 4.0 has arrived

Postby BrentEvans » Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:31 pm

The Motormixes were on a remote. It froze the whole darn thing. Tres frustrating. Of course, it was the kind of show where everything broke for two weeks. I spent all day every day fixing stuff. We had blown speakers (from the previous show), SAC failure, projector failure (venue's projectors, I still had to fix it to get it working in time), video camera control failure, live stream audio problems, yadda yadda... it seemed like it never stopped.

None of my microphones failed. There was that.
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Re: SAC 4.0 has arrived

Postby leadfoot » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:22 pm

Brent I see all your back and forth with Bob over there.. he just absolutely will not listen and doesn't get it. I can't understand how he doesn't see we are trying to help him, he's totally blind to it.
That's why I had to do this:
F3.JPG
F3.JPG (383.5 KiB) Viewed 8966 times

Turn it on and the shit just works, networking and all.. app is great, no problems.
I've always hated the comp/gate in the same meter.. what dumbass retard would want that? It sucks. And that is the way everything is with him. I've said it a thousand times, how can the guy be so smart and stupid at the same time?
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Re: SAC 4.0 has arrived

Postby BrentEvans » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:54 pm

I was playing with one of those today... how do you like it?
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Re: SAC 4.0 has arrived

Postby leadfoot » Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:00 pm

BrentEvans wrote:I was playing with one of those today... how do you like it?

In short, it's great for what I'm using it for, which is my 6 piece country cover band.

It's built well, nothing feels cheap, all the buttons, faders and connections(XLR) are of good quality(which was a concern for me with competitive products) It sounds great, although there is a bit of very high hiss to the system when all faders are up at unity, but it's a high enough frequency that I'm the only one that even notices it, and you certainly don't hear it when there's any audio playing.
At this price point, it's not going be perfect in every respect, but it doesn't suck. After using something like Sac, you have to get used to it being fixed hardware, but they really have thought of just about everything with this new design as far as form and function. The comps, gates and eq are all excellent, and yes there are separate meters for comp/gate :mrgreen: There's 200 slots for saving shows and I regularly save to usb stick with no problems. There are channel presets, although I haven't used them they are there for a good starting point. There's no matrix, only 2 immediately usable effects returns, although you could patch more into the stereo aux's if you want, the verbs are of the old SPX variety, but they actually sound quite good. I use the ipad app at every show, which has been a lot lately, and I think it's great.. still can't believe 'you know who' can't get it right especially now that there are apps out there to get a clue from.. they recently released the iPhone monitor mix app that is really cool. There's a lot to like about it, it's good stuff.

Like I said for my band and what we do, it's perfect. If I were just doing live sound for hire, I would probably want something more.. that's not to say it's not capable, compared to what we had back in the analog days, this is killer, (I know that's arguable..) but I would be looking at the CL or QL or others depending on the need.
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Re: SAC 4.0 has arrived

Postby BrentEvans » Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:38 pm

Well.. That's good to know. I do sound for hire but mostly for church functions. Occasionally I'll go run months for a colleague, but I don't do rock or country shows... Just don't know what the music is supposed to sound like.

There's aTF5 sitting on my workbench now. I already like it a lot. Going to put it through the test over the next month...
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Re: SAC 4.0 has arrived

Postby IraSeigel » Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:14 pm

BrentEvans wrote:Well.. That's good to know. I do sound for hire but mostly for church functions. Occasionally I'll go run months for a colleague, but I don't do rock or country shows... Just don't know what the music is supposed to sound like.

There's aTF5 sitting on my workbench now. I already like it a lot. Going to put it through the test over the next month...


Maybe a TF5 thread should be started??

I have a question regarding it. I have quite a bit invested in outboard pres at this point. Could you tell me:
1. How do you rate the pres in the Yamaha?
2. Is it possible to easily use other pres and output them into the Yamaha via line ins, FW or Toslink?
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