SAC 4.0 has arrived

Discussions about the use and operation of SAC (Software Audio Console)

Re: SAC 4.0 has arrived

Postby Jeffsco » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:58 pm

RBIngraham wrote:
I am curious what folks are using VST for in their live shows? Synths?


I figured out a way to use Toonracks Superior Drummer as a Live audio drum replacer. I also use a couple of Reverbs that are VST. I haven't tried my Slate Trigger yet in Live mode as of yet. There are a handful of Comp Plugins' I'd like to use as well....a bunch of the Waves products...
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Re: SAC 4.0 has arrived

Postby randyhyde » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:20 pm

Upgrading to SAC 4.0 is a hard call for me.
I've got six shows left for which I'm going to use SAC.
Basically, I'm about done doing concerts in my area -- the race to the bottom is occurring in my hometown and I can make more money doing the theater management gig (on an LS9, which is worse than SAC in my opinion, but not under my control). It's isn't the $100; I'd give that to Bob L just because. I doubt I'll upgrade to SAC because I don't won't to deal with any issues in the few shows I've got planned for SAC. If a big set of gigs comes up, I might change my mind, but it just isn't worth the bother to me now.

I did buy the AMP beta (dongles on their way). But that's not for running shows. I simply want to experiment with building my own hardware control surfaces (just as a hobby -- would probably never run any shows on them).

I *would* be willing to pay a (reasonable) license fee to get the source code to SAC Remote so I could build my control surfaces for SAC as well, but I don't see Bob L ever doing that (reasonable *or* license the source code).
Cheers
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Re: SAC 4.0 has arrived

Postby IraSeigel » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:24 pm

BrettBrandon wrote:...His pic of the Elton John concert looks to be for monitors. It dosen't look like they trust it for FOH.


I don't think it's a matter of trusting it for FOH. It's more a matter of personal preference of the engineer. I'm sure an Elton John budget could provide whatever the engineer wanted.
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Re: SAC 4.0 has arrived

Postby IraSeigel » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:41 pm

shmick wrote:I'm going to download the v4.0 demo and at least try out the Monitor F Mixer View. If it's not too clunky, I might be willing to fork out the $, but I think my hopes are a little too high in how it should really work compared to how Bob has actually coded it...


I agree. That new monitor mixer view, for me, MIGHT justify the cost of the upgrade.

But I wonder:
1. Why he made it so important to increase the channel count so high. Surely he knows that his main market doesn't need anything nearly that elaborate or complicated. There are VERY few big tours that would use this, so his ROI on his development time for that feature is questionable.

2. If he'll see ROI on all his time adding touch features. Will most users still prefer hardware controllers - aka faders - to touchscreens?

3. If his recompiling and recoding will allow him to more easily keep up with OS developments or feature additions or bug fixes.

4. If there was any work done on improving the reliability and ease of use of the networking/remote features.

I'm sure I have other questions, but certainly, for me, the demo is worth taking a look at. Ditto the AMP beta
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Re: SAC 4.0 has arrived

Postby BrentEvans » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:23 pm

Well, I'm done with the argument. I love dropping little jokes that he probably won't get.

Wonder how he'll try to bait me back?
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Re: SAC 4.0 has arrived

Postby BrentEvans » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:34 pm

A new minor update: You can't actually tap the busses in use for SAC into SAW. They show up like hardware outs, so you can't double assign. While having stems is nice,and this will do that, it's certainly not what we were expecting. You can't, for instance, have 8 submaster groups which are all tapped into SAC while having a FOH bus. You can't tap the submasters, only the real outputs. Now.. you could set up a monitor mixer which takes its taps post fader, set up your submasters there, route each one to an output, and then route the outputs to SAW (or just route the channels to O1-O8 on a monitor mixer) but either way, there is a really annoying limit. You can have seven stems off FOH which chase your FOH submaster mix (assuming you're not using more than one output for FOH) or you can have eight stems off a monitor mixer which don't chase your FOH submaster mix.

I guess there's probably a really good technical reason for this, but there seem to be taps all over the place on the input side, I wonder why making O1-24 on all mixers tappable pre and post fader is hard?
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Re: SAC 4.0 has arrived

Postby jlepore » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:41 pm

I would give up on the idea of native VST support. It is simply not a reasonable fit for the architecture. Remember, the audio processor (server) is a totally different process, and possibly a different MACHINE than the user interface(s). There is simply no audio to drive the VSTs in the view of the user. The only possible solution would be to create a rack like sound grid, etc.

Personally, I think this is where the stability and speed of the engine comes from. No longer can someone's VST bring down the entire system, or a UI bug, or anything else like that. I even crashed the UI during a show ( by editing a layout wrong) and none of the 10 people on stage, or 1200 in the room knew about it. I never lost control because my tablet was still connected to engine, and restarting my GUI took me about 20 seconds.
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Re: SAC 4.0 has arrived

Postby BrentEvans » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:07 pm

jlepore wrote:I would give up on the idea of native VST support. It is simply not a reasonable fit for the architecture. Remember, the audio processor (server) is a totally different process, and possibly a different MACHINE than the user interface(s). There is simply no audio to drive the VSTs in the view of the user. The only possible solution would be to create a rack like sound grid, etc.

Personally, I think this is where the stability and speed of the engine comes from. No longer can someone's VST bring down the entire system, or a UI bug, or anything else like that. I even crashed the UI during a show ( by editing a layout wrong) and none of the 10 people on stage, or 1200 in the room knew about it. I never lost control because my tablet was still connected to engine, and restarting my GUI took me about 20 seconds.


Joe,

Is there support for multiple ASIO drivers so you could use something like ASIO4All and VAC to do virtual cabling to LiveProfessor or Reaper or whatever else... or maybe use Dante cards to take it to a second computer (which could then be VNC accessed)?
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Re: SAC 4.0 has arrived

Postby shmick » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:45 pm

I haven't even downloaded the 4.0 demo, but I think I've seen about all I need to see to withhold my $100 upgrade.

The rest of the world is changing, but Bob and his closed minded mentality shall always be a constant.
Host: ASUS P5Q SE/R, Intel E8400 O/C'd to 3.8ghz, 3 x RME HDSP 9652, XP Pro
Gear: 9 x ADA8K, 4 x Audiorails, 1 x BCF2000
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Misc: Dual Linkwitz-Riley plugin, Studio Levelizer, Studio Reverb, Frequency Analyzer, SAWStudioLite
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Re: SAC 4.0 has arrived

Postby RBIngraham » Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:23 pm

Craig wrote:I don't disagree and I'm sure I'm going to buy in, but VST on a 2nd machine is not an option for me. If it's not native, I don't want to use it. This is as firm for me as Brent's 'love' of the new touch interface in SAC.


No worries.. I get it. Maybe some day AMP will get VST support, I don't know. I just don't think it is high on his list at the momemt.

One thing that Bob L was not bullshitting about is just how dificult VST is to make a remote for. It really isn't designed for that and I have spoken to at least 3 development teams about that now and all have given the basic comments. Because AMP always is run via a remote even on the host machine I suspect supporting VST well will add some extra complexity.

But you should drop him a line and let him know.

If you have a fast enough machine you wouldn't necesarily need a 2nd computer. I have run my AMP host and my playback software on a single computer in the past. I just use two audio interfaces on the same computer. It worked perfectly fine. Just a thought.
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SAC details and goodies at: http://www.rbicompaudio.20m.com/SAC.html
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