Delay stack channels

Discussions about the use and operation of SAC (Software Audio Console)

Delay stack channels

Postby randyhyde » Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:04 pm

Hi all,
In the past I've run delay stacks off a second output channel (third, actually -- FOH, Subs, delay stacks). This requires that I program all my "assigns" and groups/VCAs to this delay stack output. I'm wondering (short of running everything through another group) if there is an easy way to route the outputs to one or more output groups for this purpose? Until now, I've only had to use one output channel for delay stacks, but for an upcoming show I've got multiple delay stacks (with different delays, some mono, some stereo) and I'm concerned that having to route all outputs from several different locations will lead to problems (like missing some inputs in a given delay stack).
cheers,
Randy Hyde
randyhyde
 
Posts: 385
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:42 pm

Re: Delay stack channels

Postby shmick » Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:20 pm

What if you setup a monitor console tapped post fader from FOH and route everything to all 8 master outs on that console? Those outputs can be your delay stacks.
Host: ASUS P5Q SE/R, Intel E8400 O/C'd to 3.8ghz, 3 x RME HDSP 9652, XP Pro
Gear: 9 x ADA8K, 4 x Audiorails, 1 x BCF2000
Config: FOH + 12 stereo IEM mixes
Misc: Dual Linkwitz-Riley plugin, Studio Levelizer, Studio Reverb, Frequency Analyzer, SAWStudioLite
User avatar
shmick
 
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:55 pm
Location: Toronto

Re: Delay stack channels

Postby randyhyde » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:01 am

shmick wrote:What if you setup a monitor console tapped post fader from FOH and route everything to all 8 master outs on that console? Those outputs can be your delay stacks.


Will that work for groups/DCAs as well?
That's my real problem, a few input channels are assigned directly to the output channels (CD, iPods, talkback, stuff like that) while most "normal" inputs wind their way through (virtual) groups in my mixes.

Now if Bob were to add the full matrix capabilities, I'd be home free...
Cheers,
Randy Hyde
randyhyde
 
Posts: 385
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:42 pm

Re: Delay stack channels

Postby BrentEvans » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:22 am

DCAs, yes. Groups, no. However... if you can get used to using DCAs and latches (especially alt-latches) instead of groups, you're home free. Of course, you then can't do subgroup processing.... As for me, I decided I could live with that tradeoff.
User avatar
BrentEvans
 
Posts: 269
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:05 pm

Re: Delay stack channels

Postby gdougherty » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:52 am

Brent's got it. If/when Bob ever gets outputs passed through to monitor consoles then you'd be in a better spot. This is a situation though where I think outboard processing is really the way to go. I'm to the point where the kind of routing/processing you'd normally do in a console is a good thing but you get into more trouble putting it all in the box otherwise. I'm happy to do processing on the outputs you'd otherwise do, overall FOH EQ, HP/LP on FOH and Subs, HP filter on center channels. Matrix mix for center fill, good because you may want a different mix there. Delay stacks are just a differently processed copy of the FOH but may have their own complex processing for biamp/triamp setup. The biamp/triamp processing is the kind of stuff I'd do externally. Multiple delays fall into the same category in my book, though that assumes you're using digital processing for the delay stacks anyway.
http://softwareaudioconsole.wikidot.com The start of a wiki. It's slow going and there's a ton of info that should be in there yet.
Biggest item is the Command Reference on how to do most actions within SAC. It's 90% of what you need for UI proficiency.

g is for George
gdougherty
 
Posts: 407
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:10 pm
Location: Westminster, CO

Re: Delay stack channels

Postby soundguy » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:01 am

Yeah, outboard processing. IIRC, you generally use the 4800(s) for Xovers and processing. Are your mixes to the delay stacks really going to be (or need to be) any different than the mains? It would seem to me that the delay stakcs could be handled quite easily in the processors(s), even an older model spare you may have laying around or available on eBay.

Keep it simple.

Soundguy
soundguy
 
Posts: 338
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:21 pm

Re: Delay stack channels

Postby randyhyde » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:25 pm

soundguy wrote:Yeah, outboard processing. IIRC, you generally use the 4800(s) for Xovers and processing. Are your mixes to the delay stacks really going to be (or need to be) any different than the mains? It would seem to me that the delay stakcs could be handled quite easily in the processors(s), even an older model spare you may have laying around or available on eBay.

Keep it simple.

Soundguy

Different volume levels at the delay stacks and different EQ (I don't have subs out at the delay stack positions, so we generally run the SRX 725 cabinets full-range). Also, I tend to run a mono mix out at the delay stack position (stereo imaging makes no difference at that distance and, in fact, is counter-productive as my left/right delay stacks are so widely separated that the FOH stacks contribute as much at one side as the other delay stack does).

The 4800 can certainly handle it; I run four channels into the 4800 - Left, right, subs, delay stacks. It's just that I usually *do* have a different mix going to the delay stacks. Also, I prefer to use SAC's delay plug-in over the DriveRacks for delay stacks; you don't need the precision for delay stacks and it's much easier to tune the setup using the SAC plugin than it is to mess around with the 4800's menus (or System Architect). I'm the only one on the crew who can program the 4800 at this point, whereas I've got a couple of people who can set up delay stacks using the SAC plugin.

On a different note, I just purchased a couple of Line 6 transmitter/receiver units (supposedly good to 300'). I've got two Honda EU2000i generator/inverter units so I can make my delay stacks self-contained (wireless) at this point. Currently, I use a pair of SRX 725 cabinets with either an XTi 4000 or an ITech 8K (or 6K) for the delay stacks. I've just received four JBL PRX 625 (powered) speakers for my "B" rig. As they have a 90-degree coverage angle (vs. 70 for the SRX 725), I may try using those for the delay stacks. This will spare me having to place amplifiers out in the crowd along with the generators, speakers, and wireless receivers.
Cheers,
Randy Hyde
randyhyde
 
Posts: 385
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:42 pm

Re: Delay stack channels

Postby gdougherty » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:49 pm

Yeah, it is easier to tweak with the plugin in SAC, especially if you've got a remote. The 4800 shouldn't be all that difficult to adjust though. If you have a dedicated out already setup as a mono mix from your FOH inputs and a general EQ set for outdoors then it should be as easy as select the output, hit the delay button and adjust the value. You can walk off the distance pretty easily, add a few feet and be ready to go.
http://softwareaudioconsole.wikidot.com The start of a wiki. It's slow going and there's a ton of info that should be in there yet.
Biggest item is the Command Reference on how to do most actions within SAC. It's 90% of what you need for UI proficiency.

g is for George
gdougherty
 
Posts: 407
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:10 pm
Location: Westminster, CO

Re: Delay stack channels

Postby jlepore » Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:33 am

randyhyde wrote:The 4800 can certainly handle it; I run four channels into the 4800 - Left, right, subs, delay stacks. It's just that I usually *do* have a different mix going to the delay stacks. Also, I prefer to use SAC's delay plug-in over the DriveRacks for delay stacks; you don't need the precision for delay stacks and it's much easier to tune the setup using the SAC plugin than it is to mess around with the 4800's menus (or System Architect). I'm the only one on the crew who can program the 4800 at this point, whereas I've got a couple of people who can set up delay stacks using the SAC plugin.


I get the front panel thing on the 4800s - genuine PITA. What's wrong with using SA to do it? That's how I run our systems all the time and it's actually easy and a pleasure to use. I can get to the upper decks and do the time aligns and eq matching between mains and side hangs while standing in the overlap areas. Real nice UI, you can see what you're doing, and you can actually hear the changes in real-time without the whole change-update-repeat BS with plugins. We usually have 2 or 3 4800s linked to we can access all the zones remotely at once. Having remote mutes and pink generators is another really handy feature!
Gigabyte H55-USB3 i5-650/4G/XP/SSD Profire 2626x3/ADAx2/MLA7x1 Motormix x2 AMP/SAC/SAWLite
User avatar
jlepore
 
Posts: 648
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:35 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: Delay stack channels

Postby soundguy » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:57 pm

jlepore wrote:I get the front panel thing on the 4800s - genuine PITA. What's wrong with using SA to do it?


It's the only way to fly.

Soundguy
soundguy
 
Posts: 338
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:21 pm

Next

Return to SAC Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests

cron